Ham

I still say he was on something stronger than Drambuie.

That's an understatement, Belle. The "lost" thread comprised of Satori in his finest hour.. Its around here somewhere.. maybe JL has a copy of it he can share with us. Oh, welcome back! Hope you enjoyed yourself.

OK.. a little more specific. "If I left the ministry, I would be better off dead" was spoken during an "inspirational" weekly teaching. And the crowd just sat there and agreed.. ptooie. Another specific: "If you leave, you will go back to what you came from like a dog returning to its vomit"- it may be debatable whether said person would return to a worse condition- but that's not the point here. Exact quote. I think it was a fairly common belief that before involvement with Der Vey, our lives were going to hell in a handbasket. Even if the reality of the situation was very different.

Actually they did not have any real specifics, or a revelation coming from their pipeline to hell, as to what "da master" (theirs) had in store for me. But they sure did for others. And usually it was an afterthought. "See? That's why they got so sick, they forsook da truth, and Satan had at them coming and going". Case in point: Loy's vile defamation of two loyal followers: Unbelievable Stupidity Can't leave good ole "Mrs" Loy out of this either. She castigated the Po**ings for the death of their daughter. The point? For me, the fear of da debil was left as bland and as generic as possible, but assurances that SOMETHING would happen if I turned the wrong way on the path was made and implied in some pretty certain terms.

I feel the same way about what was said about other folks that were really, really nice- at least when I knew them. But some of the nicest people were mutated into monsters.

I dunno. I saw some guys riding that thing down W. Road like it was some kind of amusement ride or something. Yep.. once things became "mandatory" it lost a lot of appeal. Overall, I have some good memories, but it really was over-priced camping. I remember one year, I think 93, there was a complete lunar eclipse. Only myself and another couple other guys that I could see stood around watching it- yet it was more interesting than the prior evening teaching.

Car*l*n Mo*ica was also ordained.. don't remember which corps she was from though. Well, Tick was a german shorthair, not a german shepherd. Might be tough to make the accusation stick. But considering what was going on in that joint, I guess that almost anything could go..

I wonder if their eyes glow in the dark, like in one of those old horror films, I think it was called "Satans Lot" or something like that.. But it is obvious that they have some kind of power over people. How else can they get a group of otherwise kind, intelligent folks to circle their wagons around a really oppressive bottom line, doctrinally speaking. And to get otherwise kind, intelligent folks to ignore the "indiscretions" of the past prez, along with the reputation and conduct of those in charge now. They have to be friggin blind. I was at one time too. Just couldn't even think they could do any wrong. I think the bastards know full well what kind of manipulation and deceit they are embracing. The Way Ministry sleeps with Satan? Well, if the shoe fits, perhaps they should wear it.

Oh well, fun while it lasted. Such a thread makes such great fodder for an over-active imagination.

OK, "Mr." Lin**r, since we know that we have your attention from the developments from the deleted thread, please pass Belle's REASONABLE request along to "Mr." Moneyhands.

But how often we (at least I did..) INSISTED on having one, for our very own..

Well, I met quite a few that actually did take that position. But it cost them. Either quit, or forced out, or thrown out, or etc. etc.. I think it would have cost them a heck of a lot more to stay in.

Yep. And then I figure they've got to do what they've got to do. Probably a lot of what they do is written in a standard operating procedure somewhere too. Just personally, I think a little more stealth would go a long way. But who knows- maybe the criminals would cry foul because the cops wouldn't be playing fair..

Maybe not crack.. more likely El Esss Deee.

You would, Mr. 123, but I would agree too..

Well, they have radios and hellicopters in most jursidictions. It would seem that there could be a better way to apprehend somebody than a public display of brute force. With the kind of technology at their disposal, the solution has to be better than chasing somebody through a crowded downtown during rush hour, because of an expired license plate.. But I guess they have to do what they have to do. Seems there are always better options though. I have seen cars equipped with a little device, that if you do not enter the proper code, it travels only about a half a mile and then it pretends to break down. If you are stealing a car, and it breaks down, what are you going to do- get out and push it? That would at least take care of a lot of car theft it it was widely implemented.. There are dozens of these kind of ideas.

As if the poor stooge has any other choice but to exist on peanut butter, Ramen noodles, and water for dessert. Oh, and the occasional crumb or two from the BOD's table..

Ala, Oenphile and others, thanks for the kind words. As far as moving on, I think I have done that, and despite what some think, many others here have too. But I just can't forget some of that stuff.. and its still relevant. It does not hurt like it used to. But it seems year by year I get more adamant about how wrong it really was. I can't imagine what kind of burden it would be, to have to deal with having abused hundreds or even thousands of folks. Must be miserable, if they ever come back to having any kind of conscience. That is a very good point exie. And nobody has any business relegating any part of it to the category of insignificance.

Yep. Funny how her little publication that was in the bookstore at one time, pretty much described exactly what happened to us.. DizzyDog, I harbor no venom or ill will for you. What I think you find here are a few very emotional people. And we did not have that luxury, some of us for quite a few years. Over twenty years of sucking it in, "renewing the mind" and "getting over it" tends to have an effect on people. I'm not full of anger and wrath. I just have little tolerance for certain kinds of nonsense nowadays.

So in a lot of ways, I think this is a perfect offshoot of the offshoot thread.. After finding out what upper leadership hid for years and years.. Is there any wonder why people are a little bit suspicious of offshoots? I love them like the brethren that they are, but we're not going "that Way" again.

What about the women that "tolerated" loy's unsatiable appetite? Are they supposed to just put on a happy face, say, "well, at least I am redeemed. We should just be able to get along.."? "Just get over it". Maybe you don't have a clue about what was going on there. What about the scores of ladies rose and gang ushered right into "the master's" lair? There they are, still in charge..headed up by "rosie the enabler". Well, just get over it.. The bastard was doing three-ways at the same time I was being reamed for some little petty annoyance. Well, I oughta just get over it.. They put their most faithful supporter out IN THE COLD. At least practically, anyway. Oh well, so what. Maybe they're making too big of a deal over such a little matter.. At this time, let us just all go in peace, be filled, and be warmed, and dream of better days.. ptooie. Theme of post: extreme bewilderment.

Not quite. We don't have the legal right to just go and run them out. I think we have the obligation to warn others. We have the joy to dump, reorganize, or redefine beliefs that we once swallowed without a second thought. Look in the doctrinal forums. You'll find a LOT of agreement AND disagreement- and its not a bad thing. Some people just come here to compare notes and figured what the H happened. Most of us left Der Vey very, very confused.

What would Christ have us to do? Well, keep a nice, fresh, well maintained "beware, mad dog" sign at the corner of W. Road and Hwy 29. For starters. Call it hate if you will. The friggin dog bit the crap out of me, to heck if I'll sit back and let it bite anybody else. And its still there, getting hungrier and leaner by the day. If you think people don't look at this site before even thinking about going to "twig", think again. If you ever noticed in the old testament, the true prophets didn't give up raising objections to Israels often bouts of devilishness and idolatry? Why bother with TWI? Well, it just happened to be one devilish and idolatrous entity that personally affected MY life. And it refuses to change. Even if one more person goes in the mouth of the hole in the earth called a ministry, under my watch- if what I say could dissuade them, well, I'd be a monster. Tone of the message: concerned and SLIGHTLY annoyed.

Oddly enough though, I have peace, whether they straighten out their end or not, though I won't forget the nonsense and abuse. Obviously, they DON'T have peace, and desperately want it. The way some ex-leaders grunt on and on about forgetting all this, somehow being thankful and moving on suggests this to me. No peace.

Maybe that's why high definition TV has such a rough time going. It'll be PAY TV. Now if they can just find something worth paying for..