Ham

But all this hasn't turned me into a curmudgeon or anything.. I still like niceness, if its genuine. Personally, I object to it being used as some kind of tool, to disarm the unwary. I object to it being used in such a manner, to be eventually discarded when they feel it is no longer needed. I think the most abusive relationships were founded in this manner, this ugly, deformed version of niceness, only to turn from niceness to "you owe me".

Well, they are just so "nice". So "blessed" about everything.. even give you coffee in a re-used bleached styrofoam cup.. Of course they are "nice". Of course they won't confront you, at the first meeting. I wouldn't be suprised if they weren't even annoyed because you failed to put a check in the basket as it passed, at least for the first half dozen meetings. Just wait. Niceness is not in their nature, or a character of Der Vey. It is only a TOOL, a means to an end. A means, to make merchandise of you. Enough niceness, and you OWE them. You will owe them, to take their stinking class. You will owe them, fifteen percent of your income. You will owe them, your time, your blood, your sweat, your tears.

Interesting.. haven't thought about it for a while, but.. Der Vey would recieve my kids into their little cornfield outfit, with open arms, if they could. No pressure, no confrontation, no commitment, at least at the beginning. They tried. Un friggin believable. My kids know about the abuse, the abusive doctrine, and the abusers in that stupid organization, and others like it. They can see the stupidity- thank God. Der Vey doesn't stand a chance. They are doomed, and they know it.. the next generation is running away from that as fast as they can.

Roy, I agree.. but the worst don't stop there. Some make themselves the way they are: to demand your loyalty, time, commitment, blood, sweat and tears. Some want your children, and will merely put up with you, or go to extraordinary lengths to get them. The only chance for survival often is to recruit the next generation. The Vey was just another church. An abusive one, for sure..

I got involved with a nice civic organization here. It took a few years, but I have developed a few friendships, friends that would welcome me into their home almost any hour of the day or night, even without calling ahead. The friendship is close enough that they don't feel that they have to clean up or prepare for my arrival- it really is kind of nice. I wouldn't abuse it though..

You know, if the guy didn't burn out too many brain cells with meth or something.. the stupidity from the marijuana will slowly wear off. Wonder how he will feel in jail after a couple of weeks, heh heh.

Yep.. ole loy himself must've known, first hand.

I recommend anything except for Ham..

Just probably need a little help from somebody to get the pictures posted.

Well, if there are no takers ahead of me, I have a few things to keep the little super genius busy here..

Hey, Song.. you may consider buying a 1939 Harvester Bus. Paint it with funny dayglo colors, and put some "special" kool-aid in the back. Heck, if you stop in Michigan, I might even get on.

Probably never happen, but I'm waiting. The old limb guy will walk up and say, "wouldn't you like to go to church with me?" "No thanks boy, I already had a couple of enemas last week"

Thanks Belle. This is the most fun I have had for a couple of days! :)-->

Yep. In the middle of a cornfield somewhere in rural Ohio. Center of the universe, you know.. Oooh, oooh, I'm scared.. Maybe THAT'S why the pope is getting an aircraft carrier, to work us over with a new inquisition or something..

Well, I guess there is nothing quite like having the strength of Atlas, the wisdom of Solomon, being stuck in a cornfield in Ohio somewhere.. It's a nasty job, but someone has to do it, I guess. Its just AMAZING that all those fiery darts somehow get forwarded by the US postal service to New Knoxville Ohio, just so WE don't have to deal with them. Really? I guess that makes Thomas Jefferson, and most of the founding fathers pretty miserable characters, spiritually speaking. Most of them died broke. That the Almighty God can't get to you with a sledgehammer because you have taken out some kind of loan is well, ludicrous. God forbid that we should give a da*n about giving our offspring a nice clean place to live- or that we should place the value of women above that of cattle- ptooie. And you know the greatest sin of all.. questioning, or not trusting your leadership, implicitly. Or reading this stuff on the internet. Or.... Gads. Sure let letcher loy off the hook. This is perhaps one of the worst.. don't you dare question why this crap is producing NO RESULTS. You'll be labelled worse than loy.

Thanks Belle! Nice thread. I actually threw out anything attributed to loy.. now I wonder if I should have kept it. The only thing I kept was the old "seed" sylabus- don't know why.

What in the he*& does THAT mean? Yep, I just sat there with all the rest and thought, "well, this sure sounds nice.." I found out what that meant. The bastards stuck their noses in every stinking category of believer's lives they could imagine, demanding trust, support and implicit obedience. Ptooie. Questionable. Live with your little personality quirks, maybe. Problems, no- at least in my opinion. I think the whole point though, was somehow, the mighty loy was miraculously able to do better. And at far less cost. What more would you want? And here is the grand daddy of them all- at least in my opinion.. You've got to be kidding. All I heard was a LOT of talk. A lot of boasting- "I can take them ALL on, I'm king of da world!" The whole reality of the matter though, not one stinking "seed boy" took time off from his busy schedule to invade their little corn field to take him up on his offer. "we DO take them on"- name just ONE. "Well, we badmouthed the Pope, Mother Theresa and John Lennon".. ha ha ha ha ha..

Good grief- and he was the one that should have known better. After a while, he was looking for ANYTHING from "his" people, anything "new" or flashy- cripe, a lot of the stuff was unresearched supposition. Sounds nice, but I partly disagree, now. Well, it could be right, if ole Loy's old man habits included threatening, rape of employees and enjoying three-ways every other week.. and using mark and avoid tactics to cover up just about every sin known to man. They sure took care of that little "problem". Kind of like burning your whole crop for a year out of fear of the mice getting into it. In other words, "shortly, we will be raising the minimum requirements, and you'd better get on track, with IMMEDIATE obedience, or God have mercy on you..". Arrrgh..

Yep. Sheer misery.. sometimes, I think the whole point of it all really WAS to bring the ministry down. They certainly were successful in running off tens of thousands of dedicated followers. And Rosies little pinky is well, fatter than the size of Loy's loins.. But just when the staff gets a little comfortable in their misery, they've gotta come up with new mandates, new hoops to jump through, new requirements. And they apparently have not moderated any of the insanity- from the best I can tell. But it just keeps going on and on- one more little sacrifice, just one more little duty to perform. They've got those poor devils trying to bear up the weight of the whole world, then some. At least one of them left with far less than one stomach. Wouldn't it be nice to just be able to stand up and tell ole Rose to stick it up her a**?

I wish I could go through this kind of crap in an acceptable way too. Praying with you.

Heh heh heh. Too bad they didn't offer at the ROA when garbage bags of moolah were going on their appointed rounds. I remember one of those little meetings. And the eyes of everybody was on that little basket, looking to see if anybody really was going to take the offer.

ha ha ha ha ha.. But you know, your feelings could be pretty right about stuff like this.. Lets see. Need a life, or psychoanalysis.. Personally, I could perhaps use both. Only working on one though, can't afford the price of the other.. by the time I can, it probably won't make a heck of a lot of difference! But as far as human nature is concerned, I think I get it.. seems little things, little opinions are far more important to some than a million or so people on the other side of the world sick or dead. I'm not speaking for everybody, but those kind of things are just, inconceivable- unless you see it, or if it happens to you. Maybe personal opinions on small matters are more important to individuals because in that category, they have a little more control. Can't stop the car bombing in Lebanon, or equally bad things, but the person can "pin the devil's ears back" in their own little world, so to speak..

Northern Michigan is kind of nice, if you can stand the winters here. Real nice in the summer though.

If I were you, I wouldn't buy the idea that I am some kind of Tokyo Rose, taunting the boys in the ranks with inuendo about how their girlfriends are sleeping with their cousins back in the good ole USA or something.. You keep supporting that pile called a ministry- giving God a black eye at almost every turn- you are on the wrong side of the war. What you represent is not worth the fight, or the sacrifice. It MAY have been, once.

Or even to be able to sit down for supper, without listening to the ramblings and obscene angry outbursts from a madman.. Don't know how it is now, but that's the way it was, for a VERY LONG TIME. Think things are better? Wait till the next generation gets ahold of the thing.. You've trained them well.