Ham

Didn't want to derail the "false prophet" thread- but it got me thinking.. what WAS the ministry of der vey? Well.. "They" claimed to be a healing ministry.. for the life of me, I never saw any real ground shaking healings to speak of.. I prayed for a guy who had a hangover once, and he felt like a spring chicken.. but that's about it.. Where were the healings (plural) of "Biblical Proportion"?? OK. Let that one slide for a while.. "They" claimed der vey was a teaching ministry. Of course, what was taught was "new light". "New light" was said to be brought by an- Apostle. New light? "Four crucified" "dead are dead", "God's really a nice guy.." ? You've GOT to be kidding.. Even loy tried that one with the riddle of the sphinx. New light- ha. A "research" ministry? Perhaps once, long, long ago- and it wasn't vic that was doing the honest research. No research in over twenty years, unless you count the debt thing.. I submit- it is, and was even then close to being, a Nothing ministry.

Can't lay that at this one con man's feet.. I didn't see a stinking one.. Sure CLAIMED they could produce them though. Does that count?

"Tows R Us"

Then I'd consider the effect of elemental iron on said remaining oxygen.. elemental iron IS what most people get in their breakfast cereals. How much of the oxygen is used up oxidizing said iron? Plus other elemental metals? Plus the effect of antacids, or calcium supplements, or even calcium carbonate in the food itself. This will react with the said acid in the stomach. Not only do they produce more saline, this also produces CO2. A gas, which I will get out on a limb and suggest that possibly is far more soluble in water than oxygen- I'll have to check the Big Book to verify it though- but in any event, combined with the prolonged mixing- it likewise would displace much of the precious oxygen. Even with this, we haven't even begun to talk about what happens to what may be left, to be subjected to assault by electrolytes and crap in the blood plasma..

A little more on the burp "theory".. A physics or chemistry degree would help you understand this.. Equation 20, about 3/4 down the page, would suggest to me that the (at least eventually) dissolved salts in the digestive tract would indeed force much of the oxygen, or any other gas, for that matter, out of solution. Hence, "burp". My low estimate is not even taking into consideration the similar effects that rather ionic substance in solution, such as the fairly strong hydrochloric acid, would contribute. Point is: most of the oxygen in the water doesn't stand a chance. But this is just a cursory assessment- something to think about, anyway..

There may indeed be more scientific backing to the burp theory than meets the eye.

But it makes me wonder, what did the Penta people find, when they took said water, tossed in 0.10 molar hydrochloric acid, salt, pepsin, and all kinds of other junk, gently heated it to 36.67 C (or 309.82 K for you darn purists..) and stirred vigorously?

Good point.. maybe that's why it failed to produce the results that perhaps it should have had.. Maybe once the old vicster slapped his greasy name on it, somehow it all changed.. Poisoned food is still food, I guess.. But it makes more and more sense to me all the time. With his advanced class, the product seemed to "work"- but taking on spiritualism, devil worship, other "preversions", to me, is kind of like preaching to the choir. Easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Practically, though, he puts a guy in charge of CHILDREN'S ACTIVITIES- read the child abuse thread..said guy beats kids with a closed fist? SADISTIC, angry SOB- "possessed" by vics definition. You tell me. "his" COPY of the product failed to function, in his own back yard. Somehow, in the copy process, I think a lot of true intent and any power was lost, assuming it was there to begin with.

Maybe this is a good question to ask at your next One True Household Fellowship.. :D-->

Yep. Some things can't be avoided, I guess.. When I went to see my brother in NJ, we took the train into New York City. It was packed, but I was suprised how smoothly things really ran. People were actually kind of friendly. I don't know what it is like at night though.. But I don't think you've really lived, until you experience a cab ride through NY during rush hour..

At least one person told me I'm "nuts" for it, but when I go anywhere, I try to avoid the big roads.. "Whadya going THAT way for, anymore? NOBODY goes that way.." "that's the whole point.."

Well... What would REALLY be funny.. They'd pony up another couple hundred bucks, get settled in at the bar, and lo an behold, they'd find themselves being served- Old vics 1967 film PFAL class. Wouldn't suprise me. That'll teach em for getting throughly and thoroughly mixed up.. What does suprise me, is that the leadership is not required to "supervise" you as you put all of your old wineskins through the shredder, marking on a checklist what goes to the dump.. including all old letters, and other correspondance. Maybe I shouldn't give them ideas..

Well, if it detours one person's path from TWI, perhaps.. But, here is the double-standard again. Good for us commoners to get reamed a new one for reading "throroughly"- but apparently too good for "da teacher" being confronted (alas, posthumously) for being a lying, thieving scumbag.. If the shoe fits, I say we go down next to the fountain, do a little digging, and put it on. I think it will fit. Sadly, I found out that it fit, long after he was dead and buried. It wasn't his product.

I dunno. Seems any self-serving, hell bound glory hound seems to beg for this kind of attention.. Why can't both statements be equally true? With a lot of thought, I can't think of a whole heck of a lot that deserves praise.. Here we are discussing a thieving, lying, adulterous, scumbag- really bothers me how well the upper ups hid this crap for years.. and loy, he made vic look like a piker.. not as subtly, perhaps. But to say "da devil made him do it" really whitewashes a lot of the issue, in my opinion. Releases the old poop from a lot of accountability. He CHOSE to do so.

I guess that way, if he had to "bury" a few mistakes, he could squirm out of it. "I NEVER told you that I could.."

My, the angry Mr. Smilies are actually glowing in the dark..

Pretty interesting Jim. But in all fairness, maybe we should look at The Other Side of the Story..

He did, INDIRECTLY, and by implication. Really. He claimed the ministry he founded was, among other things, a healing ministry. Might as well have said, "I have a healing ministry". But no- not that bold, I guess..

Advanced class. Explanation about why da class was so detailed about 1. Discerning of Spirits. and 2. Healing. That's my best recollection of it- and its pretty darn close I think. "The Way (inc.) is a healing ministry" Who's stinking ministry was it? Who founded it? Ah, the "little" things he said, and just left the conclusion up to our little imaginations..

"Unfortunately", I think folks are finding a lot of credit that WAS given to vic, certainly was not "due". He claimed to have da ministry.. but who did I hear Romans 10:9 from? Not vic. He claimed to have a healing ministry, but I NEVER saw one, stinking, isolated instance of him healing anybody.. Even the way he instructed us to run communion. "The second greatest method of healing". Sorry, zippo. Not a one. "The greatest healing is observed when the Word is taught" Must have been the wrong word. Sorry, not a one there either.. "but I feel so much BETTER".. So subjective. People may have felt excited about it, said they were "blessed"- but I have seen people just as excited with ice put down their pants.. I dunno. You tell me- I'm still trying to figure all this stuff out.. Only thing I can think- if he had a healing ministry, it was buried twenty years before I met the man..

Some younger, some older. All I know, is at seventeen, give me the ball, and I'd run with it. Equate doubting God with doubting people.. I swallowed it. "They" SEEMED to be what they said they were.. or at least they kept boldly claiming it. One thing- I don't think I'm capable of EVER believing quite like that, again. Honestly, I think most people cease being a "kid" when they REALLY get taken advantage of, and finally wake up. Sad in a way, really. I don't know how much age factors into this for every individual.

What about Charles Welch? From what I understand, vic HEAVILY relied on his works- especially for corps teachings.. I never even heard of Welch until five years after I left the organization. Did vic do the same thing to Welch?

Just a thought.. maybe this is why God gets so "pi**ed off" at people that take advantage of KIDS. Kids are "gullible", if you will. Kids believe, practically unreservedly. Take advantage of that- you're in deep doo doo. Don't blame the "kid".

Naw, not a whole case for me, heh heh. But its the EFFECT that the whole case would have is what I am thinking of..

I tend to gravitate towards the cabernet.. but anything yellow tail is quite good. Cripe, for forty bucks though.. They had yellow tail on sale here, the BIG bottles- $10.00 a bottle. Unbelievable..I got four. That's all they had left..