Ham

Ha ha ha ha ha.. Juan, I wouldn't DREAM of "messing with you", heh heh.

Well, just a "little" thought.. The WHOLE STINKING WORLD is "overrun" by "them". Pagans, Atheists, Spiritualists, Devil worshippers, Muslims, Catholics, you name it. And I don't think they are going to relinquish their tiny bit of real estate- on your terms. I think you are out numbered, fella.. "Good luck" :)-->

As for this thread though.. with above post in mind, it makes me wonder how in the world W*yn* and J*hn and crew ended up being really nice guys, after going through the snake-pit of TWI. Miracles DO occur..

And among the worst- ex TWI LEADERSHIP. Either they were heaven, or they were hell.. It EXASPERATES them to see their "precious" being so "mistreated".. There's only one way this leads me- just makes me want to spit on the memory of the thing, or worse.

Some, seemingly so. Others were not so "lucky"- they were left behind to be beat into submission..

No, I bring it up as an attempt at a little MILD sarcasm.

Simple. We DO hear from them on this board, and I admire them- but they were a SMALL minority. The few with enough brains left over after mind numbing classes and seminars.. The few that couldn't be be arm twisted and worse, despite laying on them every motivational technique known to man.. Hooray for them. Unfortunately, all of us weren't that smart. Or that strong. Ah yes.. the THOUSANDS of people that got born again, and ACTUALLY spoke in tongues. Just a drop in the bucket.

Allan, maybe you don't see it, but now you're having whole conversations with "the mistress of darkness". Cripe- you're at least on the third or fourth "step down". One foot in the "hot place" and the other on a banana peel.. :)-->

Perhaps they "used" just enough of God's goodness to keep people hanging on year after year, week after week- giving first ten, then fifteen, then more percent of their hard earned pay.. They carefully measured and doled it out- as if THEY owned it. They threatened to cut it off if you did not comply with their every whim.. I think it was a slowly crafted illusion that kept us there. In my last couple of years, even the unsuspecting, unwary new folks saw it, a mile away. No new growth. No new faces in "twig"..

There is another alternative- the "blessings" were a carefully crafted illusion. Sure, the teachings made me feel warm, fuzzy and happy (well, maybe before loy-butt got more of his hands in the pudding..) but in a practical sense, how much difference did involvement REALLY make? Yeah, yeah- I know a few greek words now, I know where all the books of the bible are, I made a few friends- but couldn't I have gotten the same "benefits" ELSEWHERE, and at far less cost? I have seen people far more "blessed" after camping in the woods for a week, or spending time with a hobby.. Personally, I am beginning to think that it may be easier to leave God as the prime mover out of the experience altogether. Maybe there is a little bit of God's goodness EVERYWHERE, and somehow, TWI could not entirely claim exemption from that fact.

Catcup, I agree, and really give them credit for this. Plus they don't criticize folks, at least that I am aware of, of lack of full participation, or any such nonsense. People are seemingly able to come and go as they please, and are actually encouraged to study outside sources. It is quite a different "animal" than the TWI that we came out of, especially in a practical sense. But it is still relatively young, as organizations go. Time will tell..

Ah, the memories..

Cool Waters, your humor is honestly appreciated. No, I am not married, now. I was for twenty five years.. Anyway, I was married when "wings" just started coming in fashion, heh heh. All that tithing paid off..

Welcome CC.. I've heard a nice African American lady (gotta be PC you know :)-->) use the same term on a racist, bigoted, lazy, drunk and clueless Anglo Saxon dude.. It was rather funny. She didn't attach any racial meaning to that word, either.

Allan, yes, sarcasm was intended. Yes, I can turn into a sarcastic SOB. And it may be despicable- but so is labelling my friend Rascal as some kind of blasphemer of God Almighty at every turn- because of some kind of religious knee-jerk reaction to an HONEST question. I find myself in Rascal's corner. The more evil I learn about that was just swept under the rug in that hell hole, I find I have to re-examine practically everything. "How could God support that joint" is a valid question, at least in my opinion. No wonder not much really happened, at least as far as the miraculous is concerned, after 1972 or so.. Maybe God really did pull out of that joint, after all..

Maybe I ought to set MY record straight here.. Actually, I know folks in CFF. I actually LIKE them. I enjoy talking with them, even about the BIBLE. I even find myself in agreement, with much of what they have to say. I even enjoy participating in some of the activities.. That said.. Here's my OPINION: I think the organization really needs to stand on its own, on its own merits. You can preach the message of PFAL to me all day long, or to other grads of the "old school". But you're just preaching to the choir. If it can't "bring new light" to the newer generation, to those who NEED what it has to offer, without applying inordinate amounts of pressure and motivation, well, its just going to die a slow death. And hopefully not the kind of death witnessed with TWI.. Personally, I "did my part" with the old ministry. I went out and beat the bushes all the live long day, trying to find somebody "seeking the truth". I did this to build up an organization once, I am not going to go out of my way to do it again. God's got me too busy with other stuff. I'm not going to go "WOW" again. No more programs, no more one class after another.. Personally, I feel that if you NEED that kind of involvement, so be it. Can't say its necessarily the wrong way to go..

One man's outhouse is another man's castle, I guess.. Should I hit the little "Post Now" or shouldn't I.. Awww, what the heck..

Thanks for that little "gem", Mr. Eliphaz.

Me too. Even after they are cold, dead and buried too.. or rather, screwed into the ground- someone has to come around and try to "spruce up" the joint.. make their memory a pleasant one.. It wasn't very pleasant for a lot of folks.

Married, married. Lesseee.. heh heh. Acually, at one time..

I thought you were supposed to "rant" first, heh heh.

I think He was there, always at least to some extent.. working despite what stupid, evil people were perpetuating.. that's almost the history of religion, to begin with- at least in my opinion. And with God's nature, He's gonna do something good- at least until they "put" HIM "outside of da camp".. Some of the worst gangsters had wives, families, girlfriends.. and they could exhibit a good side. I think that is what was portrayed to the majority of us. Those who saw different were harrassed, threatened, and run off. And THEY were the ones portrayed as the bad guys.. No wonder the "outside world" often questions the value of redemption. Gads. If that's what it turns you into, who in their right mind would want it?

I wouldn't give them any more ideas! :)--> They'd start all the "taste" wars again.. Health food stores (don't give me flack on this one. I do like health food stores, but there are a FEW disreputable products out there..) would sell their versions of the cola with stevia or something better to sweeten them with, and use oxygen that is only derived from "natural" sources.. The FDA would get involved, striking any "medical" claims about said beverage from all existing and future labels..

Yep. But I think in a lot of ways, it was a lot like any other scam.. except- If the SOB's could've just lied low, not bothered or hurt anybody- the scam would be perpeptuated, bigtime, still today. But noooo... The sad part of all of this is the hurt and destruction that is largely responsable for the "downsizing" of this second rate, two bit cult..