Ham

Gads.. Goey, I did sit and listen to that little tirade.. scary.. I there is a hell.. that'd be it.. loy forced to sit and listen to his crap for a long, long time..

What's he gonna do with it? I thought Marvin was a vegetarian..

Just another thought.. ever consider that perhaps the charge was true? Don't take it personally.. this comment paints ME the same color.. Sure.. I'm of Paul, you're of apollos.. "I stand with the MOG of MOGS.. the loyster.." I really thought it was the right thing to do at the time. We were ALL carnal, well at least the majority of us... in my opinion.

I bet he BELIEVED that little statement. Along with all the others.. including the one that would only tell me: "you have NO IDEA what went on.." and that was IT. Sure helped me a lot.. "duh, well, they aren't spurtul or mature enough for the 'truth'" So darn afraid that I'd be "offended" or leave that hole not believing there is a God or something.. can't blame em.. they were only doing what they were taught..

I don't know Galen.. but at last, I can look any vey clergy in the eye and say: "I am not inferior to you" :D

Well.. barring accidents and miracles.. my opinion: Ten years is not nearly enough time to change a man's true character. True.. he was more vile, more abusive, more of a womanizer and rapist as he went on.. I think we may be splitting hairs here.. trying to define where it all started. Personally, I think he had the same character for those ten "long" years, only he just happened to get more brazen and careless..

Just one more point.. BOTH of my WOW brothers went in the corps.. and we were as close as a group of folks could get prior to this. They told me.. nothing. Period.. Even those who left.. for YEARS would not tell me anything.. Probably under threat of expulsion, death or worse..

Simple answer.. their honest, sincere, loving lives would be used to bring even more innocent God seeking people into that pile of dung.. I don't know where you were Oldies.. but these people saw loyster for what he was.. all the way through his years of insanity, vileness and abuse.. from my perspective, I stayed because this crap was carefully covered up.. I knew someone who left.. and the only thing they said was, "you have NO IDEA what happened in those meetings.." and that was ALL they would say.. no more.. and I haven't heard from them now, for over fifteen years.. at the time, they sounded like lunatics to me. Many tried to function in a godly manner, IN SPITE OF who was in charge..

Just a point of contrast: Oh yes.. OF COURSE. Yep. Of course.

RISE AND EXPANSION???? Something born of such a simple mind.. and vic never documented it?I would say he was too doggone lazy to look it up.. I thought the "research team" was developed to rubber stamp even the most inane stuff to come off the old man's desk.. What a waste of some of the minds that were put in research.. jeeze. loy sure abandoned that strategy in fairly short order.. To witness???!! Lessee.. the ole codger.. claiming he had a pilot.. "HIS pilot".. and he'd FIRE him.. OMG. "witnessing".. ptooie. I would think perhaps he just may have been trying to "impress" the lady.. but that is only my opinion.. For crying out loud.. you'd think that they would know how to string chairs by this time.. good grief.. teaches.. by EXAMPLE?? I question whether he had the time or inclination to get off his rear, and put all the stinking chairs where he thought they should be..

"Reverand Ham" has joined the discussion. Please, don't stand.. I'd feel sick.. Darn. Can't have everything I guess..

Perhaps they witnessed first-hand what happened to those who did.. But.. I still think the loyalty oath was asking far too much, especially compared with the loyalty these poor staffers enjoyed from headquarters.. Look how they were rewarded nine years later: Financial cutbacks No cable TV.. well, I could live fine without it.. Staffers now have to move to slums.. der veq claims they can't afford the rent anymore.. No pregnancies No "serious pets" Less expensive meals for staffers.. hope they liked macaroni and cheese three times a day.. Some "loyalty".. all while the ministry was ROLLING in cashola.. Where was the loyalty, and loving support for those who "labor in the word and doctrine" then? I think loyalty perhaps is a fine and noble concept.. just it really oughta go both ways..

Perhaps you could label that as a carnal request.. I would label it more as an immature one.. spiritually and emotionally, immature.. and in this, I have not been entirely faultless in my life, either. Religion sure sucks.. I know what it did to me.. can't imagine what it did to loy.. if he ever wakes up, I hope he lives through it.

I dunno.. I didn't really see it like he ASKED for another chance to "prove" himself.. more like.. he DEMANDED it. "In the name of the love of God, you MUST stand with me.." My opinion.. true love can't demand or expect respect, or reciprocation.. even from your own family.

Well.. thanks. I didn't drink TOO much, heh heh. Only a few..

Yep David, the "big 5-0".. heh heh. And somebody just HAS to keep reminding me.. :D It really isn't all that bad..

Thank you friends.. yes, it has been a very very nice day.. and I value the friendships I have developed here. I hope I have been able to bring a little light to this place. I spent some time with one of my daughters this evening.. that made the day all worthwhile too.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.. lets see..WE (well, at least a lot of us..) are REQUIRED and OWE HIM the respect due only to the Almighty.. and loy- well, he owes US- nothing. Nope. Stand with ME, or else.. Doesn't sound very "mutual" to me. When people withheld ABS because of his lack of love, respect, and intelligence.. he went berserk- calling them every nasty word in the book.. "How DARE YOU!!!!!" Well, some dared.. :D I would like clarification. How in the world would you put your spouse above God? Perhaps it would entail: not accepting your new corps assignment to Timbuctu, and instead listening to their loving pleas for stability for the family.. Perhaps instead of spending so much time, money and resources on a stinking ministry, you take said person out on a nice quiet vacation somewhere.. don't "need" a vacation, when you have "twig", I guess. Naw, we wanna serve God, do we not.. I really think this kind of example is what loy had in mind..

I forgot about that.. "Suidide Microwave ovens" ha ha ha ha ha... In all fairness though.. he likely knows how to use a computer. Tie a rope to an old seventeen inch monitor, and use it for a boat anchor..

YES.. YES, and YES. I had a "good" year.. but a lot of others didn't. ONLY reason that I had any measure of "success".. Ral*h D was the limb coordinator.. and he didn't put up with a lot of crap. There weren't very many, of his kind..

Nice song White Dove.. some things are WORTH losing.. sometimes you can end up with something better.. Seems if you think you lost everything.. perhaps you had nothing to begin with..

Hmmm. HE was genuinely hurt.. he reproved THEM.. sounds like he really cared.. only for HIMSELF. Not that I was aware of.. my understanding, he roasted a few people with fire publically, because of MINOR errors, and "missing" etiquette and protocol that even Emily Post was not aware of.. Poor corps were sometimes so worn down from swinging from gluttony to starvation, besides lack of sleep, and verbal berating.. they'd believe anything.. Sorry, I just HATE shots. Beat me with a hose, anything.. but please, no shots..

Something about this picture just doesn't look right.. for the life of me.. I just can't see loy scooting around on a motorcycle.. it would "ruin" his hair..Perhaps his "father" wanted loy to adopt the same interests.. jeeze. Bad enough he took up all his other bad habits.. CAREFUL deliberation??? I doubt it. Ah.. more of the same old stuff.. "You're in, you're out. You're a speck of dirt in God's eye, you're the greatest" Again, and again, and again.. gads, they sure were masters at keeping people off balance.. I WONDER why. vic "confronted" the guy? Asking him WHY? The guy is incoherent for God's sake.. how is HE gonna know???! I wonder how much it had to do with the freakin instability.. "you're in the corps, you're out. You're a pile of dung, you're wonderful. You're.." Not to mention the diet there.. first gluttony, then starvation.. Probably would have made me incoherent too.. So much for being able to help somebody in a crisis.. just send them home.. unbelievable. Concerned. A godly attribute.. and vic just proceeded to beat the last shred of humanity out of ole loy.. "move on son, nothing more to see here.." "There's NOTHING you can do". Really? Seems this little lesson taught loy how to "handle" people.. just put babbling, incoherent people on a bus, put "disobedient" staffers and whole families in a Ryder truck with little or no resources.. no place to go, and no way to get there.. and not have even a tweak of conscience doing so.. I kind of wondered where he learned this..

Hmm. been about five days since the challenge was issued.. Could it be.. he has NO integrity? And the charges are, TRUE? Myself personally.. I may have my faults, but if somebody laid these kind of accusations at my feet, I'd raise holy crap.. unless it all were true..

I think vic didn't teach it.. along with the book of revelation.. because.. he wasn't that smart. Too big of a book.. too much context to consider. Too many "anomalies" to deal with.. too much of a chance of being technically wrong. Or maybe he just couldn't find anything around worth plagiarizing, besides Bullinger..