Ham

Now I remember the topic of discussion! It was about implementation of Vic's "tough love" "program". You know, can't JUST teach them da bible and leave them to their own devices. Love doesn't work anymore, ya know.. gotta beat the snot out of em if you ever want to get anything done. I guess they forgot about I Corinthians 13. The worst part about it all, at least for me: my silence enabled this kind of behaviour.

Well, TWI was great for me, and a lot of fun- as long as I turned a blind eye to abuse and worse, and I did observe a lot of that in the early seventies, the "good old days". TWI served my self-seeking nature, and some of the other worst parts of my character. Yeah, it was fun, but there was a price- compromise and/or blindness. I remember sitting in a "leader's" meeting, Limb Leader (yeah, that's what they called them then) and branch cronies.. about 1974. the wives of these Nimrods had a few rational, logical objections as to how things were being run. Mind you, this was behind closed doors. No attempt to embarrass "THE MAN" in public or anything.. simultaneously, (all three b*stards were smokers) they threw lit cigarettes in their wives faces and hair, along with screaming "woman, shut the .... up". Two of the women I know of divorced, THANK GOD. The limb guy had been hand-picked by the Vicster himself. Maybe Vic shoulda told him, "Mini-me, we don't EAT our cat". This little anecdote is pretty mild.. there are other things that would REALLY make your hair stand on end.. When were the good old days, really?

Maybe the vicster should have come to me for some material woulda saved you guys a lot of time..

who in the world would argue with that point?

I would agree. I remember the effect these supposed top secret little tidbits of exclusive teachings had; the leaders boasting how that if the rest of the Christian world would only set up and listen, that they would all be set on their collective ears.. How "priviledged" we were to hear such nonsense being bantered about without so much as a blush. Ahhh.. the pride in my little ole heart to stand in the shadow of such greatness.. Vic teaching that the original sin of man was masturbation.. I remember thinking: "sheesh.. now I'm REALLY in trouble.." What strange person did he get that one from? He could come up with some pretty bizarre stuff, but I don't think he was mentally capable enough to come up with somehing THAT bizarre.

sheesh, I find myself crying for these poor bastards..

Jeff, I'm not trying to be critical or anything, but it just kind of sounds like the same reason why a lot of folks hung aroung der vey for as long as they did- to try to make a difference. In the end, they couldn't. Hopefully, this isn't gonna be the same.

Groucho, I was thinking of something like that, but thought I would leave at least some of the actual telling for others I can see it rather vividly, some poor new "learner" being inducted into the inner sanctum: "Hide not your emotions, neither your wallet, see through them we can..."

Hmm.. personal prophecies, Jedi (ahem) I mean prophetic councils, etc, etc.. It reminds me more of another thread: "Doing the same old thing expecting different results". "well, TWI didn't QUITE get it all so right. How about we do it this way.." No wonder they are in such a mess.

This is not good, in my opinion. One thing I'd say.. that's very likely what you have in store if you choose to stay in the relationship. After a while, just being quiet may not keep the peace either.

Merry Christmas GS Cafe! Here is the card we sent out this year..... Inscribed on the inside: "Though the weather may be drear, Buckster brings you Chrismtas Cheer". b_christmas.bmp

I wouldn't argue with Einstein, heheh

Oh yeah, I forgot.. it IS halloween..

Dang Exie, is that the "new look"? Yikes.. scare me.. :D

I "only" gave it thirty-six.. of course, I may have been in later than some others here..

I suppose they were supposed to be in Tuxedos for his "eminence".. If he had ANY respect, he wouldn't have put this kind of burden on their backs, especially without their input on the subject..

"Numbers, not quality".. cripe, that's the biggest excuse, and probably one of the oldest at that, for failure in the world.. Right. If they could just get one real "celebrity" or somebody with some real money.. that'd fix EVERYTHING. Ha.

Ah, that explains it all.. the confrontations and reaming because you forgot to send a card to the mog in honor of his pet hamster's birthday, or even less notable events.. they just wanted to see if you REALLY loved them.. There goes the humility.. faster than it could even be thought.. Thankful for PEOPLE? God forbid.. This one gags me.

Compliment? Wal*er C*mm*ns did a FAR better job than loy could possibly ever achieve in his wildest dreams.."doc" shoulda kicked loy in the a**. Compliment??? ptooie.. Is it possible.. the guy , for the life of himself, couldn't find ANYTHING "doc" had to say WORTH WRITING DOWN?? Naw, that couldn't be it.. And.. it was.. I bet.. RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CORPS. So much for handling things privately.. next day, I bet every stinkin corps showed up with a half a dozen packs of paper and two dozen pens.. Why loy? You reemed the guy.. why don't you go get him yourself? More posturing I guess.. so much for being a "man of the people".. One thing I can say.. loy proved himself as the ultimate lackey for the presiding mog.. and ran to do his bidding.. Now vic is supposedly some kind of "savior", trying to pull the guy out of the fire.. I wouldn't believe this crap again, for another minute.. "I will MAGNANIMOUSLY, because of the GREATNESS of I, give YOU, you lowly less than a bug, one more chance.." Crap..I think you'd be better off shot.. Sounds like some politicians.. MAKE the problem, and then boast you have the one unique solution to it all..

Perhaps they coexist. It was the tree of knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL, after all. ONE tree, TWO "fruit". And you can't gague one, without some sense of the other. Enlightenment in my opinion is a two-edged sword..

Groucho.. I never saw that.. not that I'm doubting you. I thought I filled in some blue forms in the early nineties.. and can't remember anything like that.. was this incorporated for just a few years? What I DO remember.. they DID NOT LIKE money coming in anonomously.. I never saw any forms that the branch guy had to fill out.. sure there was a lot more there.. loy sounds like he turned into Stalin.. carefully measuring who may or may not be a "threat".. Then came the purges..

Maybe we could schedule an official unofficial Greasespot "clergy meeting". There's always the next weenie roast.. hmmm. I will warn my "brethren"- do NOT drink more than one glass of the Elderberry wine..

Frank, I think it was the same for most of us.. at least from what I read here. Something of a real drastic nature was required before they lost their grip on us.. after a while, all the little compromises seem to finally add up.

Another little point, or opinion: I think loyster got the cart before the horse.. That kind of argument can make ANYTHING right, including rape, pilfering and murder.. I think the carnality of OUR actions.. truly highlighted our mindset. We were suckers. We were set up for a fall.. the arrogance.. that I could SIT, do all nine all the time, and similar attitudes.. "oh, we're soooo spiritual".. and a lot of us just signed away our loyalty without a second thought.. to a half wit from a dimwit organization.. ptooie. For what? How far did this loyalty take people? From what I see: Those who refused.. came out with SOMETHING.. including a conscience.. Those who signed.. and are STILL "signed", came out of it financially, morally and spiritually bankrupt. I did not "sign" literally.. but in my heart. Fortunately, I am now only in ONE of the categories above..

I wish he (they) lived up to this noble comment..They didn't even correct this one admitted error. Sorry, twigs here got NOTHING, for DECADES. Nothing.. from the few that departed.. other than a few "fits" and apparent madness.. "they are POSSESSED, they are worshiping other gods.." I didn't even have the chance to hear even this much. People probably thought they went off the deep end.. Can't say with certainty.. but if somebody calmly and logically.. just sat down and told me what was going on.. perhaps things would have been different, for me. At least the ball would then be in my court. But nooooo, they were sworn practically to secrecy.. only within the last three years do I find out why things were as screwed up as they were. "They" are still living up to the SAME reputation. The followers know little.. unless they so bold as to deal with "the devil" and get on the internet.. Its been the same for YEARS, and YEARS.. Gotta be kidding.. They pulled in the "welcome mat".. Let's say I wrote a nice, loving fifteen page letter, about stuff I wouldn't know about for decades.. It would take a nice long trip. From the bot, to the region guy, to the limb guy, and they would then have scheduled a nice little "meeting" for me to attend.. would have looked like the Spanish Inquisition. Maybe its good it didn't happen.. I may have not been able to handle it at the time.. I wouldn't have known what hit me.. Other sincere people that tried to communicate.. NEVER GOT AN AUDIENCE. Look at Igotout's experience.. only thing they wanted him to do was come back to the farm for a little "regrooving".. thank God he didn't go.. Oldies, it should be rather telling.. even back in the good old days, a lot of those in the know were too tired and beat down to even care what the problems were anymore..