Ham

Calling JL would be like calling a telemarketer, asking about the quality of his/her products.. sheesh.

Yep.. I've called yahoos like this before.. "... well, ya know ham, there is a difference between big T Truth and little t truth.. we otter agree on the Big T, the debil would just LOVE for us to disagree on count of the little t.." "... well, it's not all that bad. you don't know the whole story; you don't work(?) day in and day out for the bestest ministry since Paul introduced sliced bread.." ".. surrrrrre, we've made a few 'mistakes'(??!!!!!)" Have to remember people "like this" can charm the paint off the hood of your car.. No way. Not on my own.. I've learned from the "best" too.. by experience. "Now that we got that little(?) problem taken care of, anything else I can do for you?" Won't get me in that corner again.. Oldies, you call him.. you can even reminisce about old waydays gone by..

You can tell he was "trained by the best".. Never engage in public debate. Ever see vic in a debate? Or loy? I remember Loy giving a guy the "bums rush" before he got two whole sentences out of his mouth. Try to get folks off on their own, put out the little fires everywhere around you. Don't call him, all you get is a blanket message "read my book".

I still think the nature of his letter, and the seriousness of the subject DEMAND public scrutiny and debate. Considering the long standing problems, it is obvious that controlled private little discussions have done little if anything. What's he afraid of? That somebody might hurt his feelings? Afraid of being embarrassed? Afraid of giving the Lord a black eye in public? Sorry, I think he's already done that with the LITTLE we know about. Maybe he doesn't have the faith in his package that he thinks he has. Perhaps deep down he feels it wouldn't survive five minutes of public scrutiny and REAL debate. Same for the some of the other yahoos running that place. I think they are afraid to see their "baby" exposed to the light of day.

I was thinking of something along those lines.. I'm suprised they haven't gone after Stiles/Kenyon society/Leonard Ministries to begin with. They'd sue King James for copyright on the bible if they could.. What amazes me about most of the posts here from "the other side"- is the "right dividing" of all of the legal issues about plagiarism- "well, it wasn't REALLY plagiarism. It was public domain, he had the right to do it, its not the same as academics, or publication, or etc, etc" "Look at ALL THE GOOD that came of it"- questionable to me at least.. Its hard to admit you've been taken by a charlatan, a fake- it was for me, anyway. "but the guy that sold me the bridge had good intentions.." Pretty embarrassing..

I agree Potato. But even theft aside.. It proves he was LAZY. Yes, lazy. No, he didn't work his *(&*%'s off night and day, year after year- Someone else did the work FOR him. In medical terms, this would make him a parasite, just wallowing in pre-packaged resources. This is the same guy that made corps work their buts off.. stole their labors as well. I don't think he was the "workman" he made himself out to be. Lazy. I find it despicable that he slapped der vey's copyright on it.. on at the very least, PUBLIC DOMAIN material. It shows that academically, he was a fraud, on a systematic basis. A charlatan.. a fake.. A traitor to the very doctrine he reputedly represented. If I took Newton's calculus, and claimed I independantly came up with it.. some would ignore me, the rest would laugh me out of town. If I somehow could convice about 5,000 people that I actually did, they'd brand me a charlatan. Maybe this stuff bothers people that really try to work at something in life, and see somebody just help themselves..

I have a bridge.. across the divide.. I'll sell it cheap, I have no pride.. Hasn't been one like it built since the first century.. :) A few years old, just consider it a "fixer upper". (Ahem) lets start the bidding. A thousand, a thousand, who'll give me two, now three...

true, but vic was hardly another Solomon. true, but vic didn't write PFAL. PFAL was written by Stiles, Bullinger, Kenyon..

While I agree with everybody here I still wouldn't reveal a PM. I think it takes a bad situation, and makes it much worse.. Instead of having somebody furious, they are now frothing.. I would find it hard to trust someone who posts a PM publically, in the heat of the moment, or otherwise. The waiter here seems quite capable to mop up some messy threads..

If you equate "spiritual equilibrium" with "busy-ness" it makes sense to me, kind of in a warped way.. I think he's saying that anybody who is somebody is still on the "cutting edge"(whatever that is..), is busy publishing books, running classes, and generally, jumping over an army of devils with a single bound. So "busy" you don't have time to sit and rest for the next five minutes.. so harrassed with the supposed details of the walk that you blame it on being so spiritual. Things look rather different after you sit a spell.. maybe thats what he's afraid of..

Hey- I know how to reach him! Just write: The Teacher New Knoxville, Ohio The post office will know where to put it

Yeah, but the food was OK.. well kinda.. or what they put in it (probably handfuls of saltpeter)

I really expected better out of him.. Instead, its the same posturing.. same "Its the devil's fault".. "better stick with us, because its us against da debil".. Can't teach an old MOG new tricks I guess..

Some of the most abusive, accusatory, hateful letters I've seen start with those nice words.. "God bless you brother, now I'm gonna beat the snot out of you" hypocrites.

I don't think so. Its just that.. somebody titling somthing this as some kinda epistle.. doesn't work with me anymore. I think its rather dispicable. Anybody can name the name of Christ.. Just because somebody addresses something like this, am I supposed to jump up slobbering and "listen to the master's voice" like some Pavlovian response? He may have had it once, but J.L. has lost my respect.

Hey Groucho, I wonder when this little "gem" gets canonized, if they will call it "The First Epistle of J.L. to the Greasespots"

I duuno. I think we have been involved in all kinds of wars since the beginning of time.. Each side of a conflict seems to have the "right" answer.. If we could simply turn off our individuality, I think there would be no wars. But it is not quite so easy.

Well.. what are the classes? I don't quite know what you are referring to with UWG..

I just wonder why these stupid letters like J.L's just HAVE to start with "God bless in in the vunderful name of da Lard".. I haven't thought much of this before, but it HAS kind of bothered me. Why can't they just get to the stinking point? Instead they have to posture for position. "'I' am STILL GODS MESSENGER in this little session.. you'd a do best to obey ME" To use God's name in such a manner is kinda despicible. I am not impressed, to say the least.

Well, if Raf was here, he'd say once the pineapple hit the surface of the "pizza", it would be pizza no longer.. Just seems certain threads underwent some kind of "historical revision" or such.

Thanks Vegan.. let me formally introduce myself. Please call me "Ham". No formalities necessary. "Crazy Love".. only if I was so lucky.. heheh

Just wonder.. is it just me, or do some of the threads seem a little "different'.. you know, once I thought Eurasia was at war with Oceana.. now it seems Oceana didn't exist to begin with.. I'm confused. :biglaugh:

We've always known that though, haven't we?

It makes me wonder if they even saw the light to begin with. At this point, I don't think so. They (CES, TWI et al) may have a nice, "positive", cleaned and polished package, but I think inside its still darkness. Maybe they've answered the philosophical question, "when you close the refrigerator door, does the light go off, or does it still stay on.." Perhaps in lieu of true in depth spiritual perception and awareness, they should drill a 1/4 inch hole in the side of the package to satisfy themselves.

Possible.. but I don't think they have quite the resources of TWI to mount a real "defense" here.. or do they?