Ham

I think it is kind of funny and kinda understand how somebody would like the examine the thing, but doesn't want to give them another red cent.. I wonder how many others feel this way now.. Son of Arthur, I hope you find one somewhere on the cheap..

and coffee..

I think there is not one person on the planet that's not wounded.. or cut.. I think I may have started this.. my thoughts were, if JL and crew just sat down.. took time to reflect, maybe they'd find themselves- and maybe that was what they were afraid of. The business of it all.. the "responsabilities".. the rituals to be performed, often are nothing more than a diversion. They want to know that they know that they know, but they are afraid to discover themselves.. my opinion.

The university I go to, they require engineering majors to take a class (at least one) that specifically deals with ETHICS. Even the "unbeliever" knows WHO you are is as if not more important than WHAT you know..

Yeah.. one thing to say, so many ways to say it..

I dunno.. I don't really think that life is some kind of high-wire balancing act, where you try to do something nice to counter-balance despicable acts.. and that's going to make everything OK.. sounds like the Pharisee's philosophy- "tithing" fixes EVERYTHING.

I think the defamation lawsuit is the least of his worries..

I dunno how much "those of the future" will thank you.. Might be kinda like digging and finding your back yard was a toxic waste dump..

I wonder how many of these were "consensual". "why it is not an affair" If these were ladies under his care, he is no better than vic, or loy.

I don't know if some people get the enormity of this.. this is a felony in most places. "but he was sooooo good preaching the bible..." yeah, mixed with poison. I agree with Exie.. the fountain there is not spewing sweet water.

"Life is messy, clean it up"

Groucho, I think it's more like it chewed off three legs, and its still stuck..

There are 115 Hams in their database.. I wonder if I was call number 114 with that guy..

I know that there is at least one more of me.. I got a phone call several years ago.. "Ham, I understand that you have some REALLY good hashhish.." I let the guy run on for about five minutes or so, before he realized that I wasn't the same Ham he was thinking of..

I dunno.. but I think the question "does god cause suffering" is pretty profound. I have answers, for myself. I don't know if I'd post them here, some people think I'm nutso as it is.. :biglaugh:

I dunno.. everybody on the planet will "suffer" at least once in their life.. I think suffering is part of the agreement we made.. You can't really appreciate joy without sadness.. I've had my share of both.

Welcome Starbird. I don't think you can live independant of god.. if he is what he says he is, so to speak. What can you do, hide under a rock?

they don't exactly play with a full deck, either..

Makes you wonder what else they have been doing with the abs..

Not angry here, more like sorry- and not for me. I would not make that assumption. Personally, I am trying to understand them, and am only finding them despicable. My spirituality is no longer based upon how well I can convince other people to believe the same as I. The thought of going back to being a self-righteous, bible-spouting know it all "christian" pharisee with an answer for EVERYTHING, well.. I'd rather be a Moonie selling flowers.

Vic was a rather good actor on stage- I wouldn't argue that he couldn't put on a good show. How can you gague a mans character or lack thereof by how he acts in front of the crowd? You can't. The persona a person beholds may be little more than a carefully crafted illusion. Most in the ministry never saw vic: throwing temper tantrums.. and they could be NASTY. Somebody's head rolled.. chewing some guy up one side and down the other for a MINOR infraction, a rather small slip at some inane detail.. and then saying he raised so much hell because he loved us. That little trait did emerge publically a few times for those who were "spiritual" enough to handle it.. The vast majority did not know the goings on in the motor coach. Applying his influence as an authority figure to USE a HUMAN BEING for SEX, not just once, or twice.. Then applying his influence as an authority figure on others to cover his tracks.. Most of us didn't have a CLUE what was really going on, and what we know now I think is the tip of the iceberg. But he was good at giving a sermon. "I'd go to the devil's heel for truth.." I think some of us did just that.

Are you suggesting that one is spiritual and godly, and the other is mundane, and is not godly?That "we" who know better are living OUR dream, better than the rest of "them" out in the world? I'm just trying to understand what I'm hearing here.. Really? I think that said person doesn't have the right job, or is plain oblivious to what they really have.. Some of us have found our calling and purpose in life in the "secular" relm. I threw mine away over twenty years ago at the whim of some ideas from a half-baked cult in Ohio.. I feel like God saved it and didn't let it go to the dump.

If I should have offspring ever again, when I take him or her out for a walk in a stroller, I will first arm the infant with a club, and hang a sign on the front, "Politicians, beware"

Capone did a few good things too. He had a good character too, when he wasn't so busy robbing, shooting, and otherwise causing mayhem.Same for Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin.. can't come to power without kissing a FEW babies.. poor babies.. ptooie I wouldn't exactly say it that way. The times he spoke forth the word and taught the word with believing(and I REALLY can't quite swallow that) he was PRETENDING to be a man of good character, a man which he knew he SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

and I thought they were just trying to paint the sky with their nose hairs.. silly me.