Ham

understatment of the year. :) I think it would practically take a nose ring with a rope attached to get him to go anywhere.

I think TWI did well making mountains out of molehills. "Because of our believing, Joe Schmoe didn't stub his toe, get a hangnail, get infected, spend fifteen weeks in the hospital.." Ordinarily, "the law" worked when things were pretty small or insignificant, like getting your favorite parking spot. "see, it works.. I is soooo blessed.." What about the ninety nine times I didn't get it? Ah, the devil. He is attacking "the household", and trying to interfere with our rights to parking spots. Believing must still work; something's happening.. he'd not fight us, if we weren't on the right track.. as if he has nothing better to do, than to foil my best attempts at believing faithfully, so as my lazy a** doesn't have to walk a few more yards to the store. I didn't need a class to figure out how to get my favorite parking spot, I already knew how to do that: just drive around the lot half a day until it was empty.

True, Pond.. and they have self-appointed emmisaries ("prophets") to go before them, sounding a trumpet, boldly declaring their "apostleship".. practically threatening hell fire if you are among them who doubt. At no place would you find JL saying he was an apostle. Why should he, when he has others that will do it for him? No reason to get his own hands dirty.. Nowhere have I seen jl deny it. No.. he's just an apostle by default. The same tactic worked for vic as well. Send out special emmisaries to beat down the doubters and naysayers. Or simply allow them to do so. loy did the same thing in the nineties, but he made a few mistakes, he was just a little too obnoxious.

To be fair, it is a partial quote.. but no meaning is lost. wow, two ministries in one.. J.L. an Apostle? It sounds like the fellow is describing the apostle Paul.. I don't intend this as ridicule, I'm sure he's convinced of what he believes.. but doesn't it seem just a little "funny"? so.. if I don't accept the message of J.L.'s apostleship, and look at the man behind the curtain, I'm a gonner? Is this one of their "prophets"? Does it sound rational to you? Doesn't sound good to me.. If this is a representative sample of the "prophets" they give ear to, I'm not impressed.

And believe me, I know bizarre. Takes one to know one, so to speak. Only difference, I don't BELIEVE all of my nutty ideas..

I was not referring to the sincere, hard working people. I'm referring to the people who have a connection with the bizarre.

I saw some people ride the "honey wagon" like it was some kind of steer.. maybe it was a rite of passage or something.. should have been loy. I can see him, riding down w. road, waving his hat..

Is this really true? This is the same guy somebody thinks is an APOSTLE? They have words for this where I am from; I will not express them here.. I have a few questions, and questions about personal prophecy are the least of my concerns. no WONDER he doesn't want open dialog..

And these are the guys that I'm supposed to call.. sheesh.

It reminds me of the old Firesign Theater "we're all bozos on the bus".. and the guy "broke" the president by asking the "wrong" questions..

TherebutforGrace, True, he refuses to dialog in a manner I would want, but that would make us equals. I think he's been trained by the "best". I've had REAL issues with some of these guys and called.. one on one.. "now, what can *I* (or "we") do for you ham.. " Their words drip like honey, their kind and beneficient "mogness" being without dispute.. Inside of ten minutes, I couldn't figure out what I called them about.. so much runaround, being subjected to every motivational technique known to the mind of man.. I got a nice warm, fuzzy feeling.. but it didn't solve anything. The finger went back to ME. "Well, why do YOU have such a problem with forgiveness.." "see, it isn't all as bad as you thought.." "now, anything else *I* can do for you?" No thanks.. I may have my faults, but I'm not the one who has a failing "ministry" and can't figure out why. I don't think JL has a clue. It is far easier to just blame it on the devil.. I think he really believes what he says. No potshots here, but JL's track record doesn't anywhere near qualify him for me to call him up for his advice. Yeah.. it's my opinion, but I think he's saying "I'll dialog with those who CARE about (and I read it as RESPECT and ADORE) ME". One guy here thinks JL is an apostle, convinced of it. No joke- I'm not being sarcastic here about it.. what convinced the guy? The nice warm, fuzzy feeling he got? The "accuracy" of the teachings? The "package"? The FEW "results" he could have found himself, by going to a reputable counsellor? Generally I'm a happy go lucky type of a person, but that kinda chafes me.. I think they've gone the path of TWI in much of this.. some people laud vp's name to the sky, over twenty years after he's gone.. I think JL ought to read this stuff, and take an honest look at what his "package" is doing to people. The guy thinks he's a prophet of sorts, and defends JL as an APOSTLE.. sheesh. How many more are there like that? No wonder he won't debate in a manner that, yes, *I* would prefer..

Yeah we can.. but "here's what I believe, and you should too, I won't dialog" isn't very encouraging. You can't say he hasn't had the time..

He slammed it on ours: Yeah, "call me". "now... what can 'I' do for you, Ham?" Just what I need.. another session to learn proper posturing before the MOG.. "end of 'discussion', read my book."

Where shall they go, what shall they do...? I don't think STFI is gonna let a dozen or so unemployed "prophets" scour the countryside for sustenance, or recognition, for that matter. The only change I forsee is in name only. Call them "friends of the STFI" or something..

Now that he doesn't have to sweat as hard, maybe ole rosie will find something more important for him to do, like cleaning up oil spots and chewing gum in the parking lots.. wouldn't suprise me, anyway.

from their "research", looks more like they always dotted their t's and crossed their i's.

How do you explain it when somebody does not receive the healing, that really "deserves" it? The idea that the "green light" is ALWAYS on to minister.. that you ASSUME that that is the primary will of God.. I have a few reservations about that concept. A lot of times, it just doesn't work.. and I have seen people trying to cast out spirits that were not there, to begin with..

Only one that seems not to fit, on the SURFACE. How well they could hide the problems.. get REALLY sick? You were outa there.. Emotionally distraught? You were "possessed".. Easier to throw someone out than to explain the discrepency between their doctrine of health and prosperity and reality.

Both Wiarton Willie and General Beuregard Lee concur with Phil this year. kinda looks like a southern general, doesn't he.. with this much certainty, I'll probably be shovelling snow in June..

Yep.. NO SHADOW, and the first time in how many years! Anybody watch? He looked rather feisty, his "handler" was having a tough time of it. Early spirng, hooray.. maybe Phil got on the Al Gore global warming team.. I haven't seen what Phil's southern counterpart said yet.. anybody hear?

Well.. one day. Crowds have arrived.. imagine getting a glimpse of Phil is like getting tickets for the Rolling Stones..

Hey Bumpy, I found some people that might be able to help you out. All you have to do is supply the volunteers (victims) :) How to build your very own cult

That was about what I was going to ask.. I knew him in Morgantown WVA along with brother and family. Haven't heard anything for years..

Goodnight, Senor Bumpy.. sweet dreams :)

Mr 123, if I have your permission to add: "and couldn't function in a real world job if their life depended on it.." Hey, maybe Wikipedia could use some of this stuff.. :)