Ham

Before digital processing: After:

I dunno.. you can "fix" a lot of things with computers.

There is only one person in the whole world whom I have met who I would consider a "prophet", and the person does not have an agenda. No classes to sell, no recommendations to take this class, that class.. no doctrine to shove down the throat.. no demands of loyalty, no books to sell, nor any claims to be "right". And no arrogance. Totally opposite life, from the lifestyle of the "rich and famous" (Graeser, Lynn Et al). In a sense, I feel like CES has learned how to channel their arrogance. That's the "mind blowing" power people feel. In my opinion anyway.

I would agree, but I think they were rather successful at portraying their dismal form of "success" as being REAL. It looked real enough to me, but I like others was rather young. Yeah.. 36 hours of class, to learn the keys to success like it hasn't been known.. a real "bargain" and shortcut. Then all of a sudden it's not quite good enough. Well, more study.. intermediate class, seminars, advanced class- Real success always seemed to be an illusion just around the corner.

Hello Quiet Thinker, nice to meet you. They were a little more blatant here.The reason that they gave us that we weren't selling was that it was because *we* were too boring. That NOBODY could stand the blandness of the fellowship.. I think she was just projecting. I think they drank a little too much of their own kool aide.. it got to the place that leadership was sold on the concept that we weren't supposed to have fun, we were supposed to "move the word". Yep.. they are looking for more gold to salt that old iron mine with..

I wonder if they have considered a home version, do it yourself experience. For half the price, they could offer a package with a "killing the victiim" book, a pillow, and an overdose of digitalis to simulate a heart attack.. "hold harmless" agreement would be required to be signed with the order..

I don't think the horse is quite dead yet. from http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/rec_mombarton.htm Bill Barton writes: I dunno. It seems to me that something like this would be such an embarrasment, what would be his motive to make it up? And Johnny boy has recommended it as late as 2006, according to one poster, if I remember it correctly.. can't find it at the moment. This is what he was promoting. Maybe this explains the board's behavior. The agression, bullying.. firing (condemning to death) those who may not be as "strong".. and it explains sufficiently for me, J.L.'s pontificating, pushy "hey, listen to ME" letter here. I don't think things have changed.. I just think they finally turned inward on themselves.

ooooooh, doody doody. Where do I sign??

Or to protect me from devils, or to give me all of the answers in life. Personally, I don't feel redemption is so ineffective that it requires such extraordinary methods to implement.

It didn't take a 36 hour class to save me from sin and death either.

Naw, I'm not bitter. I am kind of taken back with J.L.'s recommendation of momentus, though. Did you look at the link? The guy that runs it does not show very many qualifications. "ordained minister" doesn't say a whole heck of a lot. Did he ordain himself? What qualifies him to work on another human being's brain? Possibly J.L. "ordained" him? It would be like one hand washing the other. Too many questions, and they apparently aren't offering very many answers. Or qualifications. I had a thought of calling up the church he claims he did some work for, but I just don't have the time. I feel sorry for the companies that contracted him for God knows what, especially after seeing what the momentus product does to human beings. The website does NOT say "SATISFIED customers", at least what I read there. After reading about folks being instructed to beat a pillow and scream "mommy", it just kind of puts all of the things I've known and read about CES in proper perspective.

"debt" "a constantly changing concept. Last known definition: anything one owes to anyone except da ministry that taught them der word"

Yeah, that oyster spent weeks in labor for the little rascal. "no big deal"

Groucho, I feel like we're telling people that Santa Claus isn't real anymore.. but t's more like they are seeing it for themselves. Something has to die for something to live.

So.. if it doesn't work, re-invent it. Prophecies fail? Don't come to pass? Simply re-invent it. Turn it into "conditional prophecy", or some such nonsense.. "well, you WOULDA felt like dirt if I didn't let you have it with this little gem.." If you are losing a ball game, the easy way out would be to simply change the rules. Then write a book. 101 ways to examine prophecy.

Yep.. I thought as much. I guess everybody else is expendable. No average Joes anymore. It makes sense though. They seem to be trying to get their fangs into the upper level of society. Trying to get back some prestige, some influence.. some respect. Just salting the mine. I don't think they are getting many converts though. But like the little boy trying to sell the pencil for a million dollars, he said "well, if I could just sell ONE.."

could have fooled me. What did she speak? Spiders and such, protecting the "ministry" from the evils of J.L.'s then wife? What I'd like to see, is the files of other "prophecies" and dreams they have stored away. I think this little convenient bit of information is the tip of quite a large iceberg. I wonder if the office shredders are working overtime.

True. But probably for the same reason I wouldn't, I've NEVER, EVER EVER seen it work, at least in der vey or offshoots. Did it happen to you? I'm not entirely impressed. I don't know if it's true or not, but I read a story about a guy who wanted to be an investor. Started with about 2000 names and addresses. He makes a prediction, says "IBM stock will rise" and sends to half, sends "IBM stock will fall" and sends it to the other half.. after eight predictions, he has fifteen who will sign away their fortunes to him to invest. Really, I think that is what we have here. I have heard the most mundane, plain WRONG "prophecies" .. "don't worry, mah son.." sheesh, I wasn't worried about anything at the time.. I've been "ministered" to for pain that wasn't there.. With all that said, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying, I've never seen it work. As far as K.G. being "right on the money" with J.L., I think she was simply telling him what he wanted to hear.

True. Excitement only goes so far on its own. I remember trying to say how exciting it was, and people looked at me like I was from Mars. Well, ex-70's, you answer the question how I can sell more modern, digital mouse traps. Breed more mice.. I think the second method to sell, if you can't find or make a need: salt the mine. right- get as many successful, influentual people on your team as you possibly can. Sure- they're getting "results". Making $100,000 + a year.. nice house, nice car.. Just ignore the fact that they spent four years in college.. four or more years in graduate work, etc.

I think I liked the rain least. Here we were, in Ohio farmland, at the time of the year it was SUPPOSED to rain. I remember wading through three feet of mud (or more) thinking, "what have I done to deserve this"

"All nine all the time" "an unbalanced state, characterized by casting out devils that are not there, and always getting your favorite parking spot in front of Walmart"

Unreasonable fears, on the other hand, desperately afraid that if you march barely out of step that the devil is gonna cream you, seeing spirits waiting for you under every rock- I think the person needs help beyond what a class on the bible has to offer. That says it all.. :)

"Fear is sand in the machinery of life" seems to be such a convenient catch-phrase. So compact, and supposedly so well thought through. But generally, I think it is an effect, not a cause. There may be a statistical correlation between fear and disastrous results in life, but correlation does not necessarily prove causation.

"research" 1. "a glassy-eyed, brain numbing activity, cutting bits and pieces from old books and magazine articles." 2. "a method to rubber stamp one's position. Often accomplished by citing sources that do not, and never did exist" "Mark". 1. The gospel writer, who wrote a treatise FOR our LEARNING. 2. To use a felt tip pen to mark.. 3. Not to be used with the words "and avoid", in the same sentence, since the lawsuits.

As sad as it is, these folks make the perfect "poster child" for the effects of momentus and personal prophecy. Worse yet, they can't see it. Practically everybody else in the world finds something suspicious about this style of a glassy-eyed witch of Endor kind of shortcut to a supposed godly lifestyle of "biblical proportions". And they don't see it for what it is. So gullible. So power hungry- like their "father"- looking for something they "don't have to back down on".