Ham

"Help Wanted" "Thugs for Jesus" "Now filling leadership and training positions. Must be young, robust, healthy, motivated.. CPR training, and an appetite for sheep flesh a plus. Must be willing to travel, and obey implicitly. Only serious applicants please." This was the perfect job for Mr. (now Rev) "I never mix my bread and vegetables" limb coordinator. He was so "successful" that they promoted him, and made him a region coordinator. Take a flunky just out of high school, put him on the fast track.. To me, the parallels between TWI and some groups arerather striking. They teach people how to hurt people. And provide every rationalization in the world to ease whatever conscience they may have had.. loy put a lot of these goons in charge.. and he said something to the effect of "well, can't learn to cook without breaking a few heads. Besides, we gotta get 'things' done.." "the gain that we get will outweigh the FEW MISTAKES (they) will make.." Same damn "ethics".

Good point. Why is it a LOT of these unqualified people start as a "trainer" or "leader" in these kind of organizations at a rather young age.. No qualifications necessary, well, maybe CPR training. SOMEBODY has to recognize when pressure from the training is pushing someone over the edge, and they're having a heart attack.. No qualifications, and NO EXPERIENCE EITHER, or little. No experience or qualifications to get a job as a thug either. The "boss" is more than willing to watch you "learn as you go".

Happened in the parent organization, too.

I suggested calling them the "Midland Marmots", but would they listen to me? Nooooooooo...

"... high atop a rock was a fish, ahem, I mean a perch, no.. was perched a fish, naw... there was a house..."

yep.. second rate jock. I do use that term with care, however.. no offense to the REAL athletes here. Both of my kids participated in athletics. Real athletes have more than physical discipline. They're not just mindless brutes.. loy on the other hand..

True.. but if you're gonna go down a hole, why be miserable and alone? Actually, "they" managed to chase off a lot of people that had some logic, education, and a few qualifications. Those who would not blindly follow, the few who could not honestly "rubber stamp" the most mindless "research" known to the mind of man. The sad part is, some who did leave became what it was that they left.

For one of the real problems about running an organization by people who lack credentials.. look at Der Vey. A guy who worked in a LUMBERYARD was chosen to head up the finances.. A second-rate JOCK was chosen as PRESIDENT. (notice I didn't say "athlete" ) A Beretta-bearing THUG was chosen to run the work in a COUNTRY. Holy smokes.. And there was no talking to these guys, no common sense.. neither SPIRITUAL sense, which they falsly ascribed to themselves. They were better, in their own eyes, than those who had valid qualifications. Ole doc had a valid Masters, there was no excuse for him as such.. But I remember him complaining, "wa, wa wa.. I can't do what I wanna, all you smart guys are trying to run this thing by your senses.." when those who qualified were RIGHT. "Well, we know da verd.. " or "Father told me.." "end of 'discussion', THUS SAYETH THE LORD" loy did that with the full time ministers debacle, when he was practicing the morals and sexual abstinence of a Guinea Pig. To this day, anybody in power in that place won't admit it was a mistake. CES is suffering the same fate. Those on top are.. untouchable. Until the lawyers get involved..

Really? I remember the Tylenol incident a "few" years ago. From what I remember, at least ONE "otherwise perfectly healthy" person, who merely had a headache DIED. So, what did the manufacturer do.. "well, it was only one death, a few got sick. Let's just have business as usual, and insist that the customers sign a hold harmless agreement before we sell them the product." No- they pulled Tylenol off the shelf like it was cyanide.. went to great lengths to recall the product, at great expense. Yeah- a "money grubbing drug company" as some people would call them. And they have more "CHRISTIAN" morals than a group that espouses christian beliefs. Or merely shrouds itself in them, in name only. "what's a murder, a few suicides, people going in the loony bin. Can't put it in the dumpster, look at all the good it did.." This is SUPPOSED to be a "self-help" seminar.. people just want a little more focus, maybe- maybe a few more communication skills. Maybe they want a little more confidence in themselves. "well, let's just break them down.. REALLY show them how they need a savior.." I thought that was the devil's job.

Happy Birthday! Forty? I thought you were 35, Abi..

Hmmm. Add a word, change a word.. pretty soon they have eve approaching der debil for a home loan..

Sorry. I'm my OWN guru. Can't claim that of anybody else. Just look at the little thingy under my avatar. <<<<<<< I would hope that I am some good kind of influence, at least as it relates to REALITY here. But in the end, everybody's their own master, if they choose, at the end of the day. You'll just have to order your own dog around.

To put the question where it REALLY belongs.. to the "instructors" of this thing.. "WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE???" "what ARE your qualifications?" "WHO ordained YOU?" "What DEGREE, and WHERE DID YOU ACQUIRE IT?" "How are YOU qualified to handle people who go stark raving mad?" Don't tell me, "well, I did some consultant work for Disney.." Yeah.. I shook Micky Mouses hand once.. "well, I did some work in corporate america.." Well. That explains why things are soooooo screwed up.

No argument here, but they are not gonna work on my brain unless they have more than good wishes. Stepping over the line into this relm of psychological "conditioning" is something a loving person would not do, in my opinion, given the track record of "results". To put someone in a "survival" exercise, with little more than a few people standing by with at best CPR training is reprehensible.

The momentus thing got me going about qualifications, or the lack thereof. Why is this true for these kind of organizations? CES included.. Those in authority often don't have qualifications, credentials. Or few, or the wrong ones, to run an organization, to counsel PEOPLE. It seems a lot of people followed up on v.p.'s example of throwing caution to the wind to acquire a skunk-pelt from a degree mill, so to speak. Some didn't even bother going that far. I can understand how some people feel- why stifle people.. why denigrate their abilities because they lack the proper sheepskin, or proper credentials.. and I partly agree. BUT. In the "real world" it is the EXCEPTION that someone lacks the proper educational requirements, degrees and certificates. Not the RULE. ESPECIALLY when it comes to helping people, as some kind of psychological "trainer" or such. Maybe they think it's too late to go back to school, learn it right.. maybe they've graduated from High School, and don't have a place to go. There's, on one hand, several more years of hard work.. on the other, EASY MONEY. All of those "fluff" classes in college as they call them, are there for a reason.. if you graduate from a reputable school today, you know a little about ethics, history, and perhaps philosophy. No matter what your degree is in. They are less likely to follow a bunch of lemmings down a deep hole. The history prof at my school said something to the class like "awwww, you don't see why you should learn history, boo hoo hoo. Maybe you oughta go to a certification place, someplace like Devries. They won't make you learn history.." He wasn't QUITE that mean.. heheh.

My other thought along these lines is, why is lack of qualifications, lack of training the RULE among these self "help" groups, rather than the EXCEPTION? The community college I went to.. and it was not a large one- EVERY math professor had a MASTER'S degree in math, which over-qualified them for what they were teaching, and 9 out of 10 were currently working on their DOCTORATE. The university I'm in now- EVERY math professor has a Doctorate, period. I didn't have to sign a hold harmless agreement with the university when I enrolled, either. Lack of education among these self "help" groups appears to the rule.

The way I think about it: If somebody doesn't have qualifications, they are PRACTICING, on YOU. Not "practicing" as in what a real doctor does, more like, pre-game "practice". If they HIDE their experience and qualifications, and I can EASILY follow the path of dead bodies to their front door.. with the exception of ONE person I personally know here.. the other "procedures" have been an abject FAILURE. Ended with unchecked egotism, unbridled arrogance, divorce.. hatred masked as love.. hypocrisy, delusions of Moghood.. give me a different logical reason for the conclusion I am forming. "God works in mysterious ways.." I'm really glad I wasn't really far up the TWI totem pole.. somebody probably would've tried to push the thing on me, and I'd a tried it.. Thank God for the little things in life..

Perhaps an understatement. The real "big" momentus guy doesn't even publish on his website where he got his BACHELLOR'S degree from. Or did he even get one? His claim to fame: he is an "ordained minister". From WHERE? There is one person I know with a bachellor's degree in psychology that I would barely trust to time a rat as he made his way through the maze.. But somebody who won't even reveal where he got his "training". "well, I've been around.." Holy smokes.. have a headache? I can fix it with a little "procedure". heck, it's cheap.. no claims of sterility, however. Qualifications? "I've been around..." Make sure you bring cash, in advance. Oh, just one "little" thing, this little waiver.. "your pen or mine?"

Look what it did to CES.. all the top dogs there have had "THE EXPERIENCE". Wanna hold office in that organization? better get with the program.. I saw what a commercial version of this kind of seminar did to my boss.. no BETTER than before, not IMPROVED- just more arrogant, more aggressive. More, well, GOAT. "errrr, I'm GOD here.." I had to tiptoe around that crap for over a year.. and I won't even begin to mention what it did to the business. I didn't sign the hold harmless, maybe *I* should sue for damages.. My opinion, NO MONEY, NO AMOUNT OF PERSONAL SUCCESS, gained for people whom I have observed who went through this seminar, is worth the price paid. Spiritually, I'd be better off unemployed and homeless somewhere.

Yeah.. but Rich, you bring up a very good point about goats. How is it that some people escape unscathed from this thing.. others, well. The "goats" that entered the goat rehab called momentus, emerged as.. (no suprise) bigger and "better" GOATS. More convinced, more egotistical, more arrogant.. with more focus. I think the sheep that entered it either got hurt, or simply came through unscathed. Goats can be pretty good at "confrontation" you know.. they can offer vile, nasty "prophecies" to make people tow the line.. threats that people are being "unbilblical" and such.

They THINK they do, and are rather convinced of it. They think they know what you THINK. They THINK they hold inside information about the motivation behind every thing you do. I've had "them" so far miss the mark.. what they described, and what I thought were day and night apart.. but there was no convincing "them", they were the experts.. I can hide what's on the inside fairly well if I want to, and I found them grasping at straws trying to "get it". If they are STILL abusing people like this, things haven't changed much. The way I look at it there are two choices. Either: 1. They are indeed what they say, and can see devils under every rock, read people's minds and have the heavy revelation on their lives 2. They are NUTS. Gone off the deep end, huffed a little too much glue.. drank WAY too much of their own koolaide.. lost in delusions of Godhood. In my PERSONAL experience, I can safely rule out number one.

You'd think, wouldn't you..

Maybe they'll save it for "grad" meetings, like the old PFAL segment "the day Jesus Christ died". Only viewable by those "mature" enough.. Are they actually STILL running video from loy's class? That would suprise me.. but not too much.

While I would think twice inhaling anything with flourine in it, this chemical appears to be quite stable. The "experts" say it is non-toxic.

Yeah. Too bad some people give us a good reason to despise "prophecies", sorting through spiders and such, trying to make some kind of meaning out of it.