Ham

I think FullCircle has this right. I got in the ministry in the early seventies, when a lot of the attitude started to change. I remember saying something like "Wierwille said..." and this still a very young lady in the fellowship who was one of these former flower power sex drugs and rock and roll type pipes up says "We call him DOCTOR Wierwille!!!" It seemed so eerie at the time, so out of character. We were slowly being netted like a school of fish.. Oh, Rascal.. you quoted the thing about "in vain is the net layed in the sight of any bird.." in proverbs. Bullinger had a different take, that the bird still goes into the trap, even if it sees the net layed in broad daylight. What was vain or useless, was the fact that the bird sees the trap layed. It just doesn't recognize it for what it is. I think maybe we weren't quite as clever as we thought we were at the time.. The seed picker baited the trap with quite a few pretty seeds.

I would agree. Nothing wrong with fame and fortune, as long as you're not climbing up on the bodies of your half dead "victims" to acquire it.. I think "they" worship the idea of fame, adore it. Lived so long in front of the microphone, wouldn't know what else to do in life.. I wonder if they've noticed the crowd thinning out. I wonder if they will probably die on stage, their cold dead fingers grasping the microphone, like some poor beggar claiming squatter's rights on an empty mine.

Well, maybe one or two out of the three..

rosie once went to the Bahama with Donna to be her hot mama. she thought she was cool as she stood by the pool but she had but the face of a llama

Sheesh. I don't see how people couldn't like you Roy, even if they had a difference of opinion.. :)

I was thinking that too. A lot of them came out the womb of TWI just like that, addicted. It is kinda pitiful too.. to have to stoop so low a person is buying their "drugs" from people who very likely barely made it out of high school. And seeking out every second rate hawker on the street that's trying to sell them the Brooklyn Bridge. Oh yes.. welcome to the Cafe, Listener. You can call me Ham.

I think that is the whole point here, Socks. And this is what I see: groups vying for followers and influence, trying to fill the gap in the christian world, trying to supply something NEW and NOVEL that the REST of christianity supposedly does not have. For SOME people, I believe they think this is easier than their real personal calling. I've heard some speak their organization something to the effect of "well, we're not here for enjoyment. You can get THAT in an ordinary civic organization. If we are doing THE SAME THING the REST of the church is doing, then you might as well just go to church, or join a civic group or something.." I think it is a sad state of existence if a person HAS to be different, or an iconoclast, to think he or she is getting results, or to think that to stand out in such a manner is what really gives purpose in life. I sincerely believe that this mind set is a part of the set of "bones" that SOME offshoots have choked on, instead of enjoying the Bread of Life. These "seekers after signs" don't seem to be satisfied with much of anything.. they go scouring over the face of the earth, looking for something even more controversial and splashy to add to their "unique" package, momentus from people utterly devoid of authority and qualifications, and the personal prophecy fiasco of a belief, from whom only God knows.

Another thought. They claim to screen out those who might break under pressure. How do they know? It would seem to me, LOGICALLY, they are making a judgement on a person's personality and makeup, they are NOT qualified to make. If the "patient" is on anti-depressant drugs, the thought that they might have adverse reactions to the "training" is kinda a given.. But for the rest, only a psychologist or psychiatrist could make any kind of legitimate assessment. I think the "trainers" would do as well analyzing the bumps on the applicant's heads. Those who study the bumps

True, it may not tell the whole story. But qualifications do say a lot. When it comes to something as critical as surgery or medical diagnosis or treatment, psychological or psychiatric work or therapy, I think some academic qualifications are the STARTING POINT. If you dont sleep in class, you receive the benefit of absorbing the material from an instructor who sees the big picture. Then add a few years of experience. Even with training, they don't weigh down a new graduate with responsibility that they cannot handle. If you are a surgeon, you spend quite a bit of time watching a qualified person working on a brain before you are allowed to pick up the knife. Same for psychological work and therapy. It may not be a perfect world, but "they" really DON'T like "mistakes". Some have ethics, others simply assess mistakes as too costly for an organization. If a person wanted to paint my house, I might check a few references. I wouldn't ask to see their doctorate in painting. The level of qualifications should be appropriate to the level of difficulty and how critical the job is. But it takes NO qualifications for these guys, to simply open a psychological three day "drive through". There's one on every corner. Sure it's "cheap", unless they slip with the knife. Oh, the hold harmless agreement takes care of that little problem. Well, they aren't REALLY practicing medicine or anything.. Same for some of those who start a nice bible organization. They have all the answers, "God" told them after all.. they don't need a degree.. I've seen these quacks counsel women to stay in violent, abusive relationships because of what they THINK the bible says. And there is zero accountability. Reminds me of the abortion "doctors" in the early 1900's.

"might in the earth your likeness beam, the sky would look, melt, shake and scream.." moderators, feel free to put this wherever it really "belongs".. One of "those" days here.. :biglaugh: Gonna have a poetry session in my literature class. Maybe I'll submit some of this stuff..

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fairest one of all?" "A baby, once mom stored in tote, thou lookest now more like a goat.."

I dunno.. I'd vote for her. Especially if it was a choice between Hillary and Bush.. sorry, I'll just slither away.. heh heh.

"God didn't tell you to tell ME to go pray for the guy, he told YOU.." I have only one request, if you do indeed see somebody delivered, for God's sake, don't accept the glory, amass a following, and start another second rate cult.. The pitiful thing about vp, is even IF he did minister to the guy in India, he nullified it by what he did in the good ole U.S. of A, turning the grounds at TWI into practiaclly a forced brothel. I think his actions, and those who came after him, give people plenty of reason to doubt that the event ever even happened. Welcome to the Cafe!

no kidding..

Perhaps she has a plan, but I wonder how much good it will do. I question whether she will be remembered by anyone, even ten years after she's gone. Well, except for the few staffers who have had direct involvement with her. Maybe they'll put up a memorial in the woods, which no one will be able to visit, or care to, for that matter. I think the very few who will remember her will remember her as an enabler of a sex-crazed, arrogant and abusive madman, no matter what she may or may not do for the corporation in the next year or so.

I think they are waiting for their kids to "mature".. Those who have stuck around, and haven't run for their lives are the likely candidates who have properly hardened themselves with vey dogma and opinion. The old guard is just too old and tired to be as mean as they once were. I don't think it's that they have really changed, they just don't have the stamina that they used to. I think the next generation will bring back the harshness. Their pinkys will be heavier than Rosie's loins..

I think the answer is simple enough, just don't have Bill on staff, and have the secret service follow him about, to keep him from giving her a reason to hit the red button.. She may make a good president, you never know..

Yeah.. der vey I knew tossed that one out with the rest of the "old wineskins".

Just wonder. Would it take an entirely big leap of faith to consider that He is IN everything besides?

Good question.

My very very first thought in PFAL when I heard vp relate the story was "the Indian guy is pulling a gag on this old guy.."

Happy Birthday, Groucho. I hope it was a good day for one of my favorite posters here. But I'll always remember you as Uncle Hairy .

Bad thing about it all, these jokers actually give people in the USA a reason to be paranoid.. sheesh. People around here don't really need a lot of help in that regard..

I've thought about this too. I think the illusion is the interpretation one gives to what one sees.

Reminds me of my old limb coordinator character.. he even had digestion problems simplified in life. Claimed to never mix his bread and vegetables. It's hard to try to reason with a five year old mentality. They think they have the answer to everything..