Ham

Yep. :) And watch the caffeine. That's way too big a cup of java for a little kid..

Yep.. some need I guess. I remember when I left der vey, an old "leader" said, "well, where ya gonna go? Who ya gonna fellowship with? what ya gonna doooo.." As if my very identity would simply dissolve without the influence of der vey.. I really think that some have the opinion that the whole world is going to stop if they abandon the old religion. If I had that kind of "need", I'd get it taken care of on the cheap. Just buy the materials from the Belezian people, cram it in my brain as many times as I desired.. heck, you can even buy the video of at least one of the advanced classes.. plus disks with every sunday night service in existence.

Honestly, I think he'll stand before the lord, and say, "duuuuh, I just drove da bus.."

It may be a fine line of demarcation here, but quite a few of these groups ask for "donations" instead of "charging" for their classes. :) But that is a good assessment. I just won't pay anymore for warmed over, half eaten, regurgitated pfal material. If it was so great the first time around, why do I need to buy it all over again? If it is so great, why is it that the only people who seem to see the greatness of it are these grifters who insist on continuing vic's legacy? Oh yes.. the one guy who charges for rights to run his class.. same guy who had a REAL problem with a guy who wrote a paper claiming adultery was sin.. and God is going to give him revelation? New light? people trust this guy to "rightly divide" the word? hmm. You've gotta be kidding..

I really wasn't talking about money. The old pfal signup cliche may apply here, "well, money can replaced.."This is what I was talking about: Hearing the word "doctor" attached to vic's name, or "reverand" to those who followed or enabled his vile lifestyle, turns my stomach. I think anybody who BLINDLY, without DEMANDING accountability, hands these sob's their hard earned cash, even five dollars a stinking MONTH.. I better not say. I'll talk about the money. I'd rather give the money to the government. I'd rather give it to PETA, or Greenpeace. I'd rather contribute to a GAY RIGHTS cause.. there would be MORE ACCOUNTABILITY. They would probably do MORE GOOD with the money..

I don't know about bibles.. but I've heard dictionaries sometimes have a few out of the ordinary entries so they can determine if somebody is just raw copying..

However, the old vicmeister did try to claim equivalence between believing and receiving. "all believing is receiving, and all receiving is believing.." in my own words, I think he was saying: "if you received something, this implies you believed for it, AND if you believed for something, this implies that you received it." But that simply is not true.

kinda like "god breathed = moved by the holy spirit = revelation" "things EQUAL to the same thing are equal to each other.." Nope. You have to prove EQUIVALENCE. if A is equivalent to B, and B is equivalent to C, THEN A is equivalent to C. Second rate hacks, at the best..

Yep.. from a jock psychology major turned madman.. sheesh. There really is a difference between inductive reasoning and jumping to an unfounded conclusion.. I wish these guys would just leave math alone. What did it do to them, anyway..

You know you were in twi if.. you think Drambuie guzzling plagiaristic womanizing serial abuser and rapist + "doctorate" degree from a degree mill = man of gawd.. it's cult mathmatics..

I thought I had friends there. It seemed real enough for a while.

You'd be better off being scammed by a real estate scheme.. at least you'd have a chance of getting some of the money back. But I think money is the least of the problems here. People who HONESTLY think a drambuie guzzling, plagiarizing, womanaizing, serial rapist and abuser could POSSIBLY be a MAN OF GOD.. or those who followed in his ways.. even when confronted with first hand evidence and testimony.. I think they were scammed out of a lot more than JUST money.

Another little tidbit.. even if there is correlation, that in itself does not conclusively prove causation.

I think I know where the poodle is. After about thirty years or so, unless it's on life support somewhere in a research hospital or something, poor Cocoa is plain stone cold dead.. probably tormenting vic in the after life..

I think there was at least a little logic in twi.. there had to be to attract the more intellectual crowd. But so much of the argument was circular in nature. Circular reasoning uses elements of the theory itself to reach the conclusion. "The bible IS the word of God." Then the vicmeister gave the "testimony of the word itself" to support this. While I won't argue the validity or lack of validity of the "theory", the method to prove it is rather flawed. I always thought that his explanation sounded kinda funny. This is not inductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning shows that the theory holds true for an arbitrary case, then proceeds to show that it holds true for ALL cases. "Some people prayed, and someone got healed, therefore those with that theology are correct". What about the next case? The next circumstance, where the guy didn't get healed? It's amazing how soon some of us dropped logic when superstition was invoked: "Oh. The debil wants to make us look bad.."

Inductive reasoning can be used for a valid proof, but cannot be used for everything. Usually it is a lot easier to disprove than to prove. "believing always works.." all you have to show is only ONE counter example. "the bible fits like a hand in a glove, not a single contradiction" even the old vicmeister acknowledged that it you found even ONE discrepency, then his theory was flawed. But instead of accepting apparent "defeat" he forced a lot of contradicting scriptures to conform.

I dunno. Can an udder bring forth fresh milk and sour?

That's a common morse code abbreviation. es, ur, gg are a few others.. YL- young lady XYL- old lady (wife) add the Q code list, and a person can be dealing with hundreds of abbreviations.. QRZ- who is calling me? QSO- conversation. QRT- To cease sending, or end the conversation. typical usage: "If I don't QRT, the XYL is gonna kill me.."

Hmm. The milk, the milk.. I think the expiration date on twi milk might be about twenty years or so off the mark.. I really WISH they'd give a refund.. They are still selling the same milk, claim it is fresh as today's Wall Street Journal.. You're right socks, about all that is left is give the store a piece of our mind..

That was NOT part of the agreement, "signed on the dotted line.."

What about "drugged" Oldies? hmm. seems to me, drugged and thrown in the back of the mogmobile wasn't exactly done in accordance with the ladies' freedom of will. Free will was far more than abrogated, or usurped.. Oh. "It didn't happen to ME." "Nobody took advantage of ME". "I had some good times.." This is why I am really starting to hate religion..

A buddhist could say the same thing.. or an islamist about Muhammed.. or a Hare Krishna.. and they are as convinced of the utter reality of their belief, as you are of yours. They feel your belief is as illogical as you feel theirs is.. kinda interesting, huh? I suggest that you have NO freedom of will. At least in this matter. It is not in your capacity to even entertain the thought that you may be wrong.

Well, the only way I can think of that the vicmeister could lure women into the motorcoach: 1. con them 2. hit them over the head with a lead pipe (drugs, coercion, etc.) Honest to God, it wasn't because of his "good looks".. If you want to argue the "subtle" differences between the two, and claim that it was all their freedom of will, go ahead..

I think that is what scares some people. More freedom than a lot of them can handle.. plus more freedom than some would afford others..

rosie: "who are those who shall go?" "we shall go with our flocks and herds, cats and poodles.." "not a paw shall be left behind.."