Ham

and who knows or not if they struck a "deal"? I think the whole point.. we don't know why the old mogster seemed to get away with murder right in the light of day.. reminds me of a theft at work a few years ago.. the guys had a whole set of washer, dryer, fridge at the back of the store, they went inside for three minutes before loading it.. and it was GONE. About two or three in the afternoon. The guys who simply loaded it up and left looked pretty "professional".. nice truck.. nobody said a single word or suspected anything. It was the biggest loss the store has ever had to date. point is: the worst thefts seem to happen right out in the open. I remember the mogster even appropriated other people's music from whatever source.. I remember being threatened with certain "death" if I didn't destroy the old blue sing along der vey's in my possession.. the brown book had almost an apology in it.. "to the best of our ability, we've endeavored to get the rights..(this time)" Oh yeah. at work, they also lost a dishwasher, a complete set of some VERY expensive oak dining set.. and more. all it took was five minutes..

hmm. I kinda see it surrounded with barbed wire fence, overgrown, and the only inhabitants the indigenous animals..

Me too.. especially when I was forty stinking years old.. you'd think they thought I wasn't potty trained.

Yep.. and Mr. Kentucky's "finger lickin food" has to be on the menu. I know somebody that paid hell for giving the visiting mog finger food..

hmm. vic pretty much claimed that the trinity was satan in disguise..

I wonder if they yanked it because of possibility of libel..

Another one.. the friggin visiting mogster eats LAST. Let him scrape the bottom of the bowl of green bean salad like anybody else..

Yes, Tales from Topographic Oceans.

I remember the old vicster saying something like he couldn't exist without an enemy.. it was kinda uttered under his breath. Anybody else remember this?

I had a few feelings like the guy was trying to call the alarm for people to circle their wagons around his particular dogma.. I could practically see the arrogance. Imagine.. an anti-cult cult..

In a way, I have to agree with Oldies on a lot of this.. I remember debating with people in the seventies and early eighties.. they seemed to have an irrational kind of concern, but they didn't have a clue of what vey doctine was about. I thought they were out of their minds. They would say things like "so you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God.." Nor did they know what day to day life was really like for a follower.. no, we didn't sacrifice babies or small animals. As far as I knew, they didn't at headquarters either. With who's in charge there now, it wouldn't suprise me though.. I think debating doctrine only fuels the us versus them mentality. It only seems to polarize the two camps. The real issues are abuse and worse. Seems like if you debate, you lose. The guy that started the thread seems to have an issue with being right. It almost has the feel of one of loy's rants, minus the obscenities. An 8.5 by 11 glossy of the mogster with his pants down would have been worth over a thousand words. I think something like that would be far more effective in persuading somebody to leave the organization.. "see, maybe he can teach the bible, but a pervert is still a pervert.."

How about her? She was still in during my exit in the 1990's. twenty-somethingth corps.. was at headquarters at least a while..

I think they were sued for WHAT they said about the Grae*ers, not that they necessarily posted here.

I dunno.. I kinda thought calling them vic, or vp, loy.. all small letters, was appropriate. small letters are fitting for small men..

Well, like you said, I'm not holding my breath here.. Makes me wonder why it took such a fiasco to get as much change as this..

Roy, I'm beginning to think that the discerning of spirits and casting out of devils, as we were schooled by der vey, was about as primitive as a cave man trying to perform brain surgery with a bone knife. We were given a whole list of spirits, and we were supposed to match the apparent symptoms to the one that was the closest match.. "look, he yawned, in class! He must be influenced.. maybe possessed! Hmm... has a degree.. could be a fallacious spirit.." Then the guy who was simply bored to tears is facing the modern equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition.. Maybe some people have had different experiences, but I think the casting out of spirits for the most part is no different than hypnotism. You make a suggestion.. and the person thinks they feel better. I think it can effect people on an unconscious level.

Make sure it's a copy of the Living Bible..

honest to God.. if we ever have "fellowship" at my house.. sit wherever you want.. :)

It's probably a real good thing you didn't reveal the LC's name.. for the LC.. if people don't believe that some of us were brainwashed.. how in the WORLD do you explain something like that.. makes me even more convinced today. Had I stayed in, my oldest would have ended up stone cold dead.. I don't have the words to describe my lack of respect for this vile cult..

Well.. der vey was a rather small group to begin with.. without the internet, it might be a tad difficult to hook up with some of the old crowd. I think a lot of associations people got from the group are important, not necessarily the group itself.. In a very very strange kind of way.. is this perhaps "the way" that we REALLY wanted to join? We can even fight like cats and dogs if we want to, without being screamed at to renew our minds..

My laptop uses Vista.. for two months, I couldn't log on to the wireless network at school (that was one reason I got the laptop) Daggone thing won't let me log in as "administrator".. I'd like to play with a Dos prompt, I can now, but 95% of the files won't let me without administrator priviledges.. No, if I can, I'm really not going to "shoot myself in the foot" with the thing.. for that matter, I can't upgrade the manufacturer's fix for the bios. No administrator priviledges.. Other that that, it looks "pretty".

At best, "children, obey your parents in the lord" belong on the fourth level. Not the first.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

I think also, with so many different individuals with so many different experiences, I think there is no easy answer. One thing I can say.. I was OUT at the time my oldest was a teen. That is a real plus.. it seems they interfered in the worst kind of way with teenagers, from what I have observed.

Yep.. and I wouldn't suggest that either. I've seen people live life in a Clintonesque manner, leaving one "dead body" after another.. and they don't have time to stop or to look back.. Clinton left a big enough trail that the people trying to follow it choked in the ensuing feeding frenzy.. I think a lot of this kind of stuff can be traced back to Crowley.. he claimed if you just kept on moving, things would eventually work out.. I think the restraints of law do serve a legitimate purpose.

Glad I'm not the only one who sees this.. Things today are worse than when I left around 1996. I remember a few months ago, it was some kind of forum for youth in der vey.. they were as arrogant if not more so than their parents who are still in.. I think they sacrificed their own children to the devil.. What the parents don't realize in this insane "spirit is thicker than blood" scenario, they've really just sacrificed themselves. Wait till you're old..