Ham

What I wonder though.. does it look like a retirement community, like der vey, where the average follower looks like they're over sixty?

If I were JL I'd have a few questions.. How is it, a CLOSE FRIEND, a BROTHER.. someone as "comitted" to the "written standard", or at least once was, as much as myself, be ENRAGED to the point of taking action against me, a "forbidden" action, and distasteful, embarrasing as "taking a BROTHER to the law"? I would be at least a little concerned.. wasn't there SOMEBODY in the joint "wise" enough to go to in order to help come to some kind of agreement? Apparently not, providing one actually looked. Seems to me, the "written standard" says you're better off being "ripped off" or "extorted from".. I'd ask myself the question.. "why am I (we) being so arrogant, as to not ask the guy what it would take to make it right." I'd ask.. "why is MY lack of action and communication still holding MY organization up for accountbility and ridicule." "why do I continue to be embroiled in a web of scandal, political maneuvering, and secrecy." Is it worth it? Personally.. if I were in the little momentus lifeboat thingy.. I'd jump out. The politicking and maneuvering would drive me nutso..

I dunno. I don't think it's exactly a party here.. It's gone from contempt, to disgust, to disappointment, to even loving exhortations.. the last WE knew, one half of the "body" was locked in a death struggle with the other half.. and we get a letter inviting us to be "doctored" by JL, by joining him in his sickness.. to the best we know, the "body" is not talking, moving, or even breathing.. next I think we will be playing funeral dirges for ces.. I don't know about JL.. but if I were to watch the work that took a lifetime of effort go down the crapper, it would be at least a little mentally "challenging". Instead of writing a letter pontificating his viewpoints, that he "somehow" knew would end up here.. he really should have just asked for help. Instead.. "we KNOW prophecy, read my book.. buy it a www.ces.org" I would have questions.. why is my organization falling apart.. how did the practice of MY doctrine result in a power struggle and death match.. brother against brother, in the courts.. how did MY doctrines and practice alienate my life partner.. and by God's and her love and grace, he has her back.. but no.. it's "the debil" or "the people" that's the cause of all of this.. we gotta be "right".. John.. just keep holding that thought..

Yeah.. bait though.. for whom? I don't think for the "average" follower.. I for one wouldn't have the stamina, or the inclination to try to build up another organization. Probably shaking the tree to get a few "main players" into a back room somewhere to get pistol whipped with arguments about "agreeing on the big T truth.." quote a few verses out of Phillipians or something.. or Corinthians.. "now gawd says we oughter not to be divided or nuttin.." "now, anything else I can do for you?"

technically, that is not a response. Unless you are JL himself. He makes a statement.. people respond, ask questions.. then he.. what? Hides behind a previous claim that he will refuse to respond in a public forum? I think JL wouldn't be any more warm about the idea of having some kind of ces town hall meeting with about 150 of us.. in person. No shuffling off of the major players into little back rooms to try to control the damage.. You'd think he'd feel safer and more secure on a public forum like this.. maybe he just wants to retire.. maybe it just doesn't make any difference to him that he's leaving his "legacy" in shambles.. maybe he's afraid to take an honest look at it.. without some kinda "stick with the big T truth" spin.. too "negative"..

Well.. I think the day of the microdot may be past.. sometimes I wish I could revisit those days.. but I can look into the light anytime I wish. But.. "I am rich, I have need of nothing" maybe for Christmas but we need each other.. people are starved, and they don't have a clue why sometimes...

Oooh, oooh.. it feels soooo good..

If it makes any difference.. I think we came into this existence.. with the possibility of "failure". yeah.. the possibility that if we toss the dice, that we lose.. even "eternally". "God" can't lose.. It's a gift.. that he does not have..

I have learned something from mathematicians.. they are willing to gamble the whole game.. :) that's why I love Kesey.. he echoed so many of the same thoughts. How many times does a person really have to "go through the door.."

fire has a few "redemptive" factors to it.. it does tend to burn away so much of the "dross" of life.. :) I dunno.. it's all gonna burn anyway.. what's the big deal..

In principle, it's been around a whole lot longer..

I hope my lady friend doesn't see this..

I remember that movie.. and it was at a drive in theater! My brother's friend absolutely devoured a pizza with the hottest items known to man.. along with anchovies and who knows what else.. then he chugged down about two quarts of beer.. I was probably 14. They somehow got me in an R movie.. but it was raining, and raining.. and the poor guy with a pizza and two quarts of beer was busy with dry heaves just outside the car.. it was a "memorable" night, but not because of the movie.. Oh. Trivia buffs.. who was "daddy" in the movie?

I dunno.. one day, I walked out of "twig", and the next thing I knew, *poof*. Actually, if I HAVE to be something.. I'd rather be something small.. besides, can't have people take me too seriously.. at the end of the day, it's just the word of a squirrel..

I don't think he'd get the REAL hard questions like "Why does the Porridge Bird lay its egg in the air?" "Noooooo..."

ALMOST everyone I know who HAS, have walked away with glassy eyes. Some of them practically can't remember what real issued they went to him on.. "call me, I'll COUNSEL you.." Honestly, I think people are more than a little tired of little "need to know" stuff in damage control "sessions". I won't go back to one. "call me, I'll HELP you.." ??? No thanks, you helped your "ministry" enough as it is already.. Ya know.. this little situation here isn't like a gang of bullies, trying to get some poor guy with taped eyeglasses to meet them in the playground after school.. Maybe John can't get real, because he isn't real.. that is an option here.. It's like a scene out of Firesign Theater.. the guy trying to get a few answers out of the "president".. "hey man, he broke the PRESIDENT"

Seems pretty obvious, doesn't it?

Yeah.. threats of eminent possession.. I think that was one of the things that helped me loosen the grip.. I saw preachers in other demoninations threaten the flock, not with possession.. but dangers of hayull fire.. if they didn't accept the authority "gawd" and "the word" gave him.. with pretty close to the same demeanor, spittle flying out into the front row.. I thought, how.. ignorant. Then I thought again.. hmm. how ignorant..

And then there was the "opportunity" to rub elbows with the chief debil slayer himself. Anybody who can slay every use and usage of the greek word "spoudazo" or "pneuma hagion".. well, that's just what does for KICKS.. Just wait till he gets warmed up..

Did they capitalize on the interest in possession stuff? It would make sense. Some of the advanced class did have an old carnival kinda atmosphere.. "hurry hurry hurry, see the five headed debil, he walks, he talks..watch as he pulls ectoplasm out of an ordinary body. Stand back boy, don't touch.." not to mention, we were "richly rewarded" by being allowed to handle vic's private collection of curious arts.. the "automatic handwritings".. I wonder how he ever got that stuff.. and then.. the discerning of spirits section was the longest section, and most detailed, was it not? Not to mention "the coolest".. the snappiest.. you may have fallen asleep during sixteen keys.. but during vic's public showing of "debils"? Not likely. For a lot of people, that's what they were THERE for.. to hear the "secrets" of da kingdumb.. well, I was, anyway..

I dunno.. some people think that "we" are God on a vacation.. no responsibilities, or at least fewer.. With ages of heavenly "perfection".. some people think that we desperately wanted this stinking existence.. and yet, we can't have exactly what we want.. the "simple life".. maybe this is the closest to it that anyone can have..

"where are we".. hmm. People talk about being lost.. and I've had that question on a few road trips, "are you lost?" "no, I know exactly where *I* am.." whatever happens, when I go through the vortex again, I'll be somewhere.. hopefully know where I'm at.. I think we're in a trap.. stuck in this little shell of "self". I think a lot of us have been trapped, one lifetime after another.

Socks, did I ever tell you I love you? honestly.. brother to brother. It did add one thing new, new fodder for the superstitous, looking for devils under every rock..

good point..

I still don't think this is too far off the mark, as far as the thread is concerned. Isn't this what we "signed up" for? The proceeds paid for date rape drugs, motorcycles.. motorcoach, possibly hotel rooms.. etc.. etc.. Shoulda read the fine print..