Ham

seems there are two possibilities. either.. someone is just plain obnoxious.. or they are baiting you to cross the line. I don't think that either of them are sufficient cause to use a fist. Walk away.. permanently if you have to.. I'd say you're better off just giving everything away, unless you can afford some real legal help. You're better off if you lose the house.. the boat.. the furniture.. your credit.. I think a person is better off giving it away, on their own terms. I knew someone who simply threw a coffee cup, in anger.. wasn't even aiming at the "lady".. a fragment just barely cut her face.. He lost: the house. Immediate.. arrested, then court protection order.. couldn't return. the home business.. the boat.. the truck.. the tools.. the nice stereo.. the big TV.. any good credit he accumulated.. oh. Three years later, he managed to get the truck back.. I don't know if it ran at the time.. If there are children in the relationship.. a person has even more good reasons NOT to strike his or her spouse..

what about Ken Kesey? Maybe not a teacher as such.. but an explorer and finder.

Did somebody mention Mal Packs? I thought I'd bring this to the top for those who want to see what the "real" one is..

I don't think life would even be half as much fun if one had all or even 95 percent of "the answers"..

but they just keep chanting the same mantra.. "we've got DA WORD like it's not been known since the first century".. quote enough bible verses.. that should make things clean. Or should it? I remember something from the old testament about that. Can holding "holy flesh" make the unholy holy? Something Ezekiel asked, I think..

of course it usually stops just short of "or else". I'm really starting to think that God hates these kind of organizations.. maybe not the people.. but the daggone politics, hard-heartedness and manipulation.. casual dismissal of real destruction they cause. why not just be something that God would want to fight FOR..

Hmm. One thought.. what's in it for jl? He's pimping the thing as recently as 2006. maybe he thinks it's public service.. naw... only thing I can think.. to promote something like this, even privately to an individual, knowing full well what the experience is like.. the promoter has to be some kind of goon.. I almost feel it's about time for someone to pipe up and say, "hey, I didn't get no disease from it.." I think the person is "lucky" if they didn't.

What it really makes me ask.. "what did it REALLY do to them?"

Maybe that's what the "hold harmless" thingy is really about.. no recourse for picking up a few "harmless" germs..

Hmm. Maybe this reduces the "status" of momentus even further.. like it's a harlot.. needs someone to try to chase down a few customers..

not my idea of spending an otherwise enjoyable weekend, either..

maybe not king.. maybe he's more like a Queen Dowager.. Well, before sonny boy MG split the scene.. but they no longer publically endorse or recommend momentus. Just for the special, the few jl thinks might need it.. I thought personal prophecy and momentus got married in CES.. now they've reduced her status to that of 'concubine".

Merry Christmas.. I'd imagine this is worth more than anything else at the time.. :) hope you can enjoy the holiday with your dad.

What a senseless way to get a meal. I mean.. it would take a dozen or so to fill a pot..

I suppose I could box up a few peanuts. Squirrels are probably starving there..

"MOST SIGNIFICANT"? as far as "signs following those who believe".. the "movement" was an abject failure.. there was a LOT of talk, but few "results". perhaps a success on an organizational level. A real money maker.. for some.

MOST SIGNIFICANT? why can't people just be "ordinary"

One observation.. jl acted rather quickly. So fast, a lot of the leaves didn't even hit the ground.. I wonder how much of a real "favor" he did for them. Maybe as individuals.. but to provide another organizational comfort zone.. I dunno. When I left der vey, I didn't seek out anybody to help me with "exit counselling" or anything.. just found that the world wasn't such a bad place. I did look a year or so prior to leaving. Sure, there's evil here, but it was in the old organization as well. Interesting to see some people come here.. and it's almost like they've woken up from a coma, and it's still like "another day at the way".. it's almost like they've left another "way ministry".

The only difference I could detect in the few of their publications I've read.. I read their "major" work.. well it was at the time.. "one God and one lord". They DOCUMENTED much of their sources. The style of writing was better.. there was a little more continuity and organization. But with few exceptions, I felt that it is the same material, nothing REALLY new. I think it is vic's legacy, in a new and improved package. I suppose that it fills some kinda niche..

I wonder if she lived up to the twi definition.. a hard man, err, woman, to live with.. issuing one-sided edicts.. This is one reason I feel that CES is effectively "neutered". They don't have the stamina to pull off any kind of effective witnessing campaign.. besides, it is far far easier to enjoy someone else's labors. looking at the "bright" side.. I don't think any one "leader" has the wherewithal to start another similar organization. Nor would I think that he or she garner any kind of real support from the ex way community. The troubling thing though, I think.. CES tried to fill a niche, not find a mission. What's their real passion here.. is it to really help people.. and how? Just by "researching" the bible? Giving little personal prophecies and palm readings? Selling worn out twi doctrine? Personally.. I've already bought a bookshelf full of new and improved, biblically "accurate" mousetraps.. got a whole closet full. What makes theirs any better?

Now if there was a club that made such a distinction for me.. well.. well.. the world doesn't exactly seem to be beating a path to my little doorstep..

and, by the time said person did their job, i.e., brought people in the fold, brought cashola to the twi or SOME offshoot coffers, they were sent out of town on a rail: all that's left are momentus "grads".

"wowser"..

I dunno.. I think it's partly due to proposed thought that the same kind of energy, or whatever we are fundamentally made of, repels. It's a love/hate relationship we all seem to share.. Perhaps religion just gives it a rational explanation. Maybe it is an "adornment" to our already fragile identity.

but you have to admit.. there are worse causes. at least he's not preaching the pope's coming with an aircraft carrier.. I'll watch it if I can.. don't exactly think I'll get "possessed"..