Ham

This less than half an excuse of a "man" DIRECTED others to ABUSE their wives. He was "leadership". He did this, in his CAPACITY as "leadership". This was in 1975, before mean boy loy got the reins.. the "man".. was trained by vic, PERSONALLY. Early early corps..

So what about a little "stowry".. imagine sitting in a "LEADER'S" meeting. The bigwig limb guy, his cronies (branch coordinators) and their wives.. it was a little planning session. Nothing formal. One of the wives asks a question.. with a genuine concern.. she is ignored. Another one asks.. in unison, the three "men" say.. "WOMAN, SHUT the F*** UP!" "did I hear you right? and another round on cue, "WOMAN, SHUT the F*** UP!" and simultaneously, they throw burning cigarettes into the wives faces and hair.. I witnessed this, first hand. Same limb guy who ran the family and sex class, on more than one ocassion.. Yeah.. same guy could stand at the platform and say how he loved his wife.. and others oughter do the same with their wives.. ended up in yet another woman's bed.. and divorced.

ah yes. Bertrand Russel.. the man who found a hole in reality.. George, I actually admire the guy..

[ hey, I'll take one, or two.. :)

Well.. anything I have is free for the asking.. no ulterior motives or anything.. not that one would REALLY want what I have to offer.. but.. the whole point of this existence.. there is always the possibility that one is WRONG.. I'd rather refund in terms of that which I did not charge.. :)

hehheh. I forget.. which one was it.. the red one, you wake up, the blue one.. you find out da innner secrets.. lost track of all these colors.. I'm gonna try an experiment. Let's see if I can draw jl, js, etc, into MY "trip".. heheh. It worked for Kesey, at least once or twice..

I really really think he wanted to bring some legitimacy to the organization.. I don't know what jl and js think.. but wouldn't this character have the same care for the organization? Maybe it did't fit the "way" mold..

as bad as this may sound.. if the organization is to survive.. they are going to have to make some kind of deal with the "devil".. Maybe that what Graeser was all about..

Honestly though.. Isn't that what they really need? Somebody who doesn't have anything invested in the organization.. someone who is immune to the doctrinal "mind freeze"? which many succumb to? You know.. "we oughter agree on the big T truth.." I suggest that I am perfectly qualified. 1. I believe in reincarnation. In fact, I can remember a few past lives. 2. I agree with small portions of Christianity, Jewish Mysticism, Native Indian beliefs, all kind of stuff.. 3. I do temper a lot of what I think with logic.. I'm a math and chemistry major.. pretty close to a 3.5 GPA.. So I'm "dissattached" enough to see and understand all sides involved.. maybe the whole point here.. I think they need somebody from the "outside" to find some point of balance, or equilibrium.. not some damn "yes man".. there are those who are far more qualified than me.. psychiatrists.. analysts.. even.. God forbid.. trinitarians..

The big question.. where do they go for arbitration/mediation? I officially offer my services.. madman or not, I can see through them like water.. good idea or not.. like my very good friend here says.. what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger..

Actually, you gave me the idea Bumpy. Or at least part of it. Well, you may share part of the responsibility. You said.. something like.. "do we just outlaw them and give them all the bums rush, mine fuhrer?" I thought "naw.. just do a little "procedure".. let them live out their remaining organizational days in peace, umm, or something.. no more stray offshoots roaming the streets..

well, I tried to say it as delicately as possible. Thought of this after looking over stuff on the CES threads.. if someone just had the gumption to spay/neuter twi, we wouldn't be confronted with this nonsense, would we?

Oh yeah.. and the "counselling" advice given to some people.. "take your kid out in the wilderness, where no one can hear his/her screams as you beat the *^#@ out of them.." No, "they" won't give you an autographed copy of their book of "sound advice" either.

I wonder.. have any locals done this? Pulled in the CES "welcome mat"? I'd write a letter: "To whom it may concern. Due to your recent heresies, scandals, cotroversy, division, hard-heartedness and apparent general lack of genuine spiritual perception and awareness, we are immediately dissacociating our selves from your organization. Please remove our names as contacts from your literature and from your web site. We are praying for you. When and if you come to the realization that you need outside help call us. If we can't help, we'll find someone who can. Sincerely, Joe, Podunk IA." I'd at least be polite about it..

I dunno.. the questions people ask.. "who am I, really".. "what are we, really.." I don't know if they know what they're asking for.. The "answers" you get may burn a few holes in you.. :)

It's kinda like math. It's a proof by construction (all cases). when is it NOT right to strike a woman.. 1. In supposed self defense. Unless one does not "possess" legs, one can run, can't they? 2. When they are just plain ornery. what about YOU bub? what makes YOU such a bargain? 3. When they are trying to force you over the line.. one of the BEST reasons not to act in anger. They will then prove to the judge and jury that you deserve to lose the house, the boat, the car, the big TV, the big stereo, the tools, the Christmas tree.. custody of kids, etc. etc. 4. When they are trying just to connect with you. what the friggin world did you marry her for? intimacy for three minutes a couple times a week? "sorry darlin.. don't bother me. we did that for a whole whoppin three and a half minutes last night.." Of all the human beings I've met in this life.. I haven't compared a single one to a fly buzzing around my head.. I haven't met a single solitary human being that I'd "clock" to shut their mouths.. even at mankind's worst.. Maybe the mindset depends on one's priorities in life..

"cost him his first bod" might be an understatement of sorts. It sounds like he drove them off with the "greatness" of momentus..

Revenge.. yeah.. I've heard stories.. You know, the "man" has to fall asleep, eventually..

There's another alternative.. maybe the spouse just wants five minutes of undivided attention. Is that too big a thing to ask? "not now, woman, I'm busy with the tools, the boat, the house.." I've seen this too.. some people can't handle demands for any kind of intimacy..

seems there are two possibilities. either.. someone is just plain obnoxious.. or they are baiting you to cross the line. I don't think that either of them are sufficient cause to use a fist. Walk away.. permanently if you have to.. I'd say you're better off just giving everything away, unless you can afford some real legal help. You're better off if you lose the house.. the boat.. the furniture.. your credit.. I think a person is better off giving it away, on their own terms. I knew someone who simply threw a coffee cup, in anger.. wasn't even aiming at the "lady".. a fragment just barely cut her face.. He lost: the house. Immediate.. arrested, then court protection order.. couldn't return. the home business.. the boat.. the truck.. the tools.. the nice stereo.. the big TV.. any good credit he accumulated.. oh. Three years later, he managed to get the truck back.. I don't know if it ran at the time.. If there are children in the relationship.. a person has even more good reasons NOT to strike his or her spouse..

what about Ken Kesey? Maybe not a teacher as such.. but an explorer and finder.

Did somebody mention Mal Packs? I thought I'd bring this to the top for those who want to see what the "real" one is..

I don't think life would even be half as much fun if one had all or even 95 percent of "the answers"..

but they just keep chanting the same mantra.. "we've got DA WORD like it's not been known since the first century".. quote enough bible verses.. that should make things clean. Or should it? I remember something from the old testament about that. Can holding "holy flesh" make the unholy holy? Something Ezekiel asked, I think..

of course it usually stops just short of "or else". I'm really starting to think that God hates these kind of organizations.. maybe not the people.. but the daggone politics, hard-heartedness and manipulation.. casual dismissal of real destruction they cause. why not just be something that God would want to fight FOR..