Ham

oh no.. that was for the "rank and file".. they had whole volumes of stuff for the REAL "innies": the closer you got to "the inner circle".. they had scads of stuff.. "how to please da mogster, in a dozen or so easy(?) lessons" 'how to break the holy mint into precise quarters" "who to have meet him at the airport" "what one may talk with his holiness(?) on the ride to da meeting.. and what issues thou mightest not address".. they had rampant VOLUMES for those in the "inner circle" to peruse.. I never saw these. They are "holy script".. hidden away, for only the most faithful(?)..

It's in the same book that alleges vic as da man of gawd for our day and time.. same book that has instructions to take "disobedient" (fidgidy) children out in the wilderness where nobody can hear their screams.. as you beat the living daylights out of them.. same book that alleges that women are merely property of da kindgom, to "bless" da king.. married or not.. same book that says we owe our VERY LIVES to the dumb ministry.. pretty big book.. that's just the first chapter..

Swatratra might be a little more forthcoming if the victims, er I mean the fellowship participants signed a waiver acknowledging that the readings, ahem, the prophecies are for entertainment purposes only..

As nicely as I can say it.. at the "harvest time of life".. I wouldn't be too happy just leaving some twi clone wanabe organization standing somewhere on the face of the earth.. :) I'd be happier if somebody just said "he was just a nice guy, most of the time.."

I dunno. I don't think we can exactly separate ourselves from the past. It is still part of us. I think that is what some are trying to do.. That was you back there.. twenty or so years ago.. I haven't met ANYONE here, that I would say that they are wallowing in self pity or anything. On the contrary.. most are reclaiming their lives. What could have been is becoming what is.. I became, and am becoming what could have been.. I got a ham radio license.. in 1993. It's what "coulda been" thirty years ago.. I am a stones throw from a bachellor's in mathmatics and chemistry.. It's what coulda been, twenty some years ago.. but still the past is part of me. Rascal got the black belt.. "coulda" done it fifteen years ago.. The only FEW that seem to be going nowhere.. unless I just don't know enough details.. are those who staunchly choose to REMAIN in the past.. bound by the "shadows of a few great(?) names", bound by an arcane doctrine or set of doctrines that only those here can understand. Going from one offshoot to another, one "great" name to another..

"Swatratra".. hmm. Sounds more like a modern dance that didn't exactly catch on..

I know there are exceptions here.. but with the current track record.. what I am starting to think.. don't trust ANYBODY in an offshoot. Many have too much invested in der verd as it hath not been known since the earth cooled.. can't "contaminate" vic's heritage and word with a little dose of reality. Maybe they want to leave "something standing" in the harvest time of life.. but an outhouse by any other name is still an outhouse. Nothing a bucket of lime won't fix.

even Capone could have an official stance. "Our mission: feed the poor and unemployed doughnuts and coffee." He didn't have an official stance on Heroin, robbery and general mayhem, however. Never taught kiddies in his doughnut shops to rob and stab their neighbors.. some of us here helped pass out the coffee and doughnuts.. on our own dime.

some people think you can separate doctrine and practice. I would suggest it's not really so easy. It's kinda like "we've got standards, but we really don't". "just don't touch da bible.." "don't you DARE touch MY righteousness.. da bible tells me so.." sorry fella.. I'm not the one rubbing it in horse manure.. should have been my answer at the time..

and that is the REAL offshoot "problem". they have way too much "invested".. too many years in a deadbeat organization.. too many hours giving it free labor, adoring it's teachings.. lavishing it's leadership with praise.. giving financially.. abandoning real callings, and higher education for a madman's dream.. it all has to mean "something" ya know.. where's the "payoff"? it's easy enough to spell out.. we were H. A. D. "but naw.. it's gotta mean something.. we got da word, didn't we?" what if everything you came to believe is WRONG? "naw, can't be it. let's tap into another ministry, another pfal clone.. another group.."

*dons squirrel swami hat* I Predict.. there's gonna be trouble somewhere in the middle east next year.. some tourist will become lost in downtown Toledo.. some second or even first rate religious huckster will get caught with his pants down.. and The pope will NOT invade the united states in his new aircraft carrier.

Yeah.. nothing like being "there".. nothing like watching a barely eighteen year old lady being brow beaten by a limb leader to "accept the assignment".. the forty or fifty year old "creep" in twig had lotsa money.. I think half of the "problem" here.. if you didn't see it, it's rather hard to believe.. Where's your "faith" brotha?

I've made a few "differences".. I just don't know if they were "enough"..

See.. in a very SHORT time.. we'll all go back to what the eternal beings that we are.. what difference did you make? maybe that's the real big question..

A very good friend.. tells me.. the ONLY thing the kaballah.. or bible.. or torah.. or whatever.. authorizes anybody to do.. isn't raising the dead.. levitation.. miracles.. only acts of kindness.. and that's it.. that's all that's allowed.. in "real life" here.. that really is what I TRY to live by..

not really. That's not the real point here. Strange as it sounds.. this is one of the few places in the world that I think people can actually understand me.

If you really want to know.. I was a kid, a young kid.. no parents, no real refuge, no real place to go. what are you gonna do, bite the hand that feeds you? I did have an aunt and uncle. They had unsuccessfully attempted to have their kid deprogrammed who was in der vey. That kinda trashed any chance of any kind of relationship with remaining relations.

Like when I saw a barely eighteen year old lady being counselled by the limb guy to just "get laid" and "get over it" who happened to be in a twi sanctioned training program.. just had a simple question about a creep in twig that wouldn't keep his hands off.. several of us could not avoid hearing this little counselling session through two solid oak doors.. Or like other guys who were conditioned to abuse their wives with the right cue from the limb leader at the time.. oh, they were in the same program. like.. the advice given to parents to take their kid out in the wilderness where no one can hear the screams as they beat the *(&^ out of him or her.. or the limb guy who publically boasted that he had previously given some "cop out" the same advice.. seventy or so of us must be wrong. No documentation there.. or.. the poor women who reported abuse and got counsel like "he's just distracted. Maybe he needs more sex.." Or the women counselled to get abortions. Can't dissapoint gawd, and fail the "training".. I know one couple who refused.. they were labelled scum of the earth. I think her parents caught them when they were thrown out before they hit the ground.. That's all I can remember, at the time.. naw, it wasn't twi. No no. It was just their doctrine, their training programs, their "leaders". Don't wanna blame a has been, devilish, destructive, arrogant "we have da answers" ministry now, do we?

! Interesting. Perhaps somebody figured a way to make it back from lighbearers without putting together a class.. "Sowy chief, the best we could do was to just cast out a legion of spurts.." "oh, here's the tape" reminds me another 'stowry" I've heard.. about some guy who supposedly raised his pig from the dead on the way to market, so as to be able to sell said pig for plane fare to the roa.. the guy involved apparently sounded pretty convincing..

hmm. Lethal force.. "really your honor, I hadda. She was going to murder my credit.." I really have met people with this kind of mentality..

what I find interesting.. I have the name and details of the guy who practically ran a "how to abuse your wife in der vey while looking religious in six easy lessons" apprenticeship program, and I get no reply from mr. "fair and balanced" here.. maybe I'm on ignore..

It was more than "assumed".. it was enforced. I saw three "men(?)" bully, threaten and intimidate their wives into silence. What are they gonna do? Leave? Just walk fifteen miles to town, and catch a bus? Oh.. the one guy is in the phone book.. I won't say his name here. But I wonder how he'd feel with a question about this twenty some years later.. I'd say you probably know him. Or who he is. "duhhhh, we were just following orders.." interesting how the past can return to bite someone in the rear.. apparently he can't "believe" big enough to bury it so deep to keep the "devil" from digging it up.. personally, I don't have the inclination. He's probably miserable enough living with himself as it is.

What I wonder is, what did "they" do to him? He believed the same bible, at least once.. just a "passionate for the truth" as j.l., j.s. and gang ever was.. did they push him over the edge?