Ham

Satori.. did I ever tell you I love you? really.. as a brother. I hope you consider me one.. :)

this is the one.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JecyHi0YAw4...feature=related

bringing back for related discussion..

Here's another one they shuffled around till he found the "right place" in der ministry.. Court "approved" proof.. Here's a thread from one of the victims: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=46 note even with a CONVICTION.. the apologizers for der vey come forward.. "couldn't be, he INSISTED he was innocent" "what's the big deal about a judge and jury throwing the book at him.." "a conviction doesn't PROVE ANYTHING".. that pretty much summarizes how I read LLP's responses to this recent development in gawd's "ministry".. sounds like I struck a dark chord..

obviously not.. even when you could have the phone number to interview the "other side" of the story.. naw. Nobody seems to be requesting your services to serve as "prosecutor" in this "case" here.. why go through the trouble of asking for pure, unadulterated evidence.. police reports.. court records of convictions.. no one appears to be asking for your services to act as some kind of "arbitrator".. and obviously, twi doesn't think they need to arbitrate or fix any wrongs.. don't take this as an attack, but an observation. Do you have something personally involved in this business, to discount the claims and evidence offered by scores of people? I don't really expect an answer.. maybe just ask it of yourself..

Oh.. Paw does let us name names if they were real high profile "leaders(?)".. like Townsend, Geer.. how you could call gear "high profile" is beyond me though.. maybe he made a high profile stink at der vey, but he was just another motorcoach driver carrying a handgun.. the limb guy was a less rate lackey than geero, at least at the time.. I wonder if he found another "home" in the geer "organization"..

I have so proved my allegations. If you wish to verify my proof and observations, you certainly may. Unless I'm mistaken, I thought you were looking for "fair and balanced reporting".. wanted to hear the details from the other side.. here's the golden opportunity. there are a couple reasons I won't name names in the open here.. 1. forum rules forbid it. Unless said person is a bod or bot, past/current member.. 2. I DO have a FEW scruples left..

I can only guess why you are not taking me up on my "kind" offer. He even has a current phone number in the white pages.. best I know he's still alive. You want verifiable proof? Just one phone call.. I bet it would be a "stab from the past.." Personally, I don't have the heart to do it. I'd hate to hear a grown man cry..

If you live where I think you do.. the call wouldn't even be long distance.. :)

see.. you could ask him PERSONALLY what kind of "details" I left out of the little "stowry".. 1. where the women could flee from this kind of nonsense, practically in the dead of winter.. you know.. "don't like it? well.. you can walk home.." 2. what to do with the kids at the time.. or one.. 3. .............. 4. what it did to a young "ham" to watch this kind of stupid abusive ...... I'm sure he'd provide a few answers..

would you like the name and phone number of the now "retired" limb guy who counselled "maidens" to "just get laid".. "get over it".. ? I'm sure he'd give details.. even answer a few questions.. give something the "other side" could tell.. with the right kind of prompting, though he probably wishes that this whole Way Ministry scenario would just go away.. He shows up on a Zaba search. No, I will not reveal the guy's name, address or phone number on a public forum here, unless he was an old "trustee".. There are a FEW rules to abide by.. I'd even give MY name. You could ask him: what about the little "meeting" in (city, state).. when "ham" was present, and he "counselled" his *men* to ABUSE their wives.. on cue.. during the () time of year.. 19XX.. along with names of those present.. there was the #@%!@'s, and the ^*&$@'s there.. I'm sure they don't forget. Of course, the "men" are probably single now..

Personally, I think a LOT of what we consider our destiny was something we agreed on a long time ago. Perhaps we just can't remember making the agreement.. I don't think it's so much about the destination, maybe more about seeing the sights along the way..

Yeah. The last meeting I had with this whatever he was.. In a high squeaky voice.. no joke.. his wife sounded like a baritone compared to him.. "If I were you, I'd spill my guts. We KNOW something is wrong with you.. let's hear it.." and he was MINDLESS. He didn't have a clue.. he grasping at straws, trying to figure out who the "troublemaker" was in his limb.. who was standing in front of the great prevailing power of gawd, who was just begging to send new people our way to be confronted into oblivion.. I said.. "hmmm. OK.. let me think about it, I'll get back with you." He looked like he got a punch in the stomach.. "duhhhh, wellll, OK... that's a good idea.. ummmm.." at that very moment.. I saw that I was had.. had by false threats and promises.. had by a group of madmen, for YEARS..

Sincerely, I'd like to give thanks, for rosie, loy, and the bod, for their remarkable insight, in sending this numbnut to my state, and helping me to see the truth for what it in reality is..

I think he was "special corps". one of the special, the few, the brave, the foolhardy.. maybe one of the requirements for his assignment was to huff a prescribed amount of glue.. "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome your leadership for 20XX".. but his wife.. was a "FOX" with a capital F... and if anybody had the brains in the family, it was her.. Even at the time, I wondered if loy put them together, knowing she'd be able keep track of him.. "now honey, we put our LEFT foot in the LEFT shoe.." I honestly couldn't see what she saw in him.. I had my suspicions and at time doubts.. but when they sent this guy out on the field.. I finally saw I was following a boatload of lunatics..

he had a dull, dumb, content look on his face, as he fondly described his bread and vegetables.. no joke.. I thought at the time, if I handed him a loaf of italian bread or a bagel, he'd start petting it.. sowy.. no idea what got me on this.. He was a mini-loy. I can see loy and him together in residence, spending quality time.. "we eat our bread, we do not pet it, mini-me.."

probably when they said "release to us Barabbas". Let em go.. a charismatic leader ya know.. really "moved da word" in Israel. Kinda like "let's let loy off da hook.." "or vic".. or "he who walks in darkness, but never mixes his bread and vegetables". Oh.. that was my last limb coordinator's claim to fame. The mixing of bread and vegetables part that is. That's what they taught him in da corps ya know. Really.. no joke. you know. Mark and avoid someone with honest questions or doubts.. have a stalk of celery.. defame another brother in christ.. have some green beans.. but no bread. His way of averting gastrointestinal disaster.. and people think I'm nutty.. How they could ordain someone with the intellectual acumen of a third grader.. and the common sense of a lemming, in charge of a whole state and then region.. well, that's "der vey" in a nutshell.. he's probably on the prez's cabinet now..

well, they say old cheese is the best.. :) but who's letting it get older? It's not my cheese. Belongs to der vey.. let them come and claim it. It's smelling worse every day..

Of course, those who were close to the top who confronted anybody about this.. look what happened to Ra*ph D.. Other people were told "it's none of your business".. Here.. I'll try for you Bumpy. "*mr* linder, a formal statement is being requested by the Squirrel as to the nature of these allegations. Please infom rosie that we demand a formal statment as to the number of "affairs" the old pres had, along with acts of abuse and cruelty, the number of "affairs" and acts of abuse that occured under her watch, why to this day der vey refuses to acknowledge to true cause of death of it's founder, why the founder participated in fraud and documented plagiarism, how many alleged druggings and rapes she may have aware of, etc.. etc.." and an answer to the ALLEGATIONS based on others observations of the nature of the relationship between the current pres and the last pres's (ex?) wife. why in God's name.. you think you own the copyright to one of Jesus's names.. Oh.. and why "they" tried pegging the failures of da ministry on others, and more specifically, the Squirrel, saying "we KNOW something is wrong here.." when the evil they sought was merely in their own laps.. we're just getting warmed up with a few innocent little questions. No big deal. I'm sure *they* will be along shortly.. Maybe they'll send rico with a letter or something.. unless someone else is in charge of the nuts and pea soup department now..

"your Honor. I object.. my client is not a criminal. He hasn't been convicted.."

So.. if I get in a REALLY REALLY good disguise, rob a dozen banks.. mug more than several influential people in the community.. if I'm not convicted.. it's not a crime. Makes perfect sense. They couldn't charge me with a crime to begin with. They'd have to have a conviction before they could even arraign me.. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession..

Thanks friend.. well, I hope he didn't find the new year in the bottom of a bottle of Drambuie..

Another thing.. how do the gear followers really feel about gears tainted past, as far as his association with herr vicmeister? Do they feel that: 1. He is a *reformed* enabler of a sex, power, and drambuie crazed madman.. 2. Despite vic's glowing errors, somehow, he has managed to find a few good things to hold up as vic's "legacy".. 3. or.. that he is der man o gawd to da world, the true succesor to vic's "throne".. 4. Or.. and the BIG question.. what kind of response does one get, putting these kind of questions to der supposed man o gawd.. "do we have to go over this AGAIN (as if *we* did, even once to begin with..)???!!! That was OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO!!!! What POSSIBLE RELEVANCE (I can think of some) can this POSSIBLY have with gawd's TRUTH that you oughter stand with ME???!!!"

And all of this about "caring" for vic's legacy.. vic's "ministry".. is is just POSSIBLE all of the pop shenanigans were more of a self-servicing nature? Could it be, with the downfall of her vicster's clean "christian" image to the masses, gear himself would be labelled as one of the enablers? Makes sense to me.. I think he only put off the inevitable..

"filling gear in on where his head was at.." I think what's written are the few "pleasant" times he had with der vicmeister. What is so noticeably absent in gears "epistle".. any admission of guilt of abuse from the said mogster.. details about how he was so abusive to gear's wife.. although it is alluded to.. the SEX.. and BOOZING.. and you name it.. "gawd, I was a twisted sob.." I wonder how much he really told gear.. and the "poor" vicster.. so "concerned" about the way "his" ministry was heading.. I think he knew- he "trained" his "men".. they were taking der ministry in the same direction as he himself.. he complained about their carnality, lack of supposedly listening to da spirit of gawd.. well.. duh. He raised them like that, didn't he? How more CARNAL and FLESHLY and DEVILISH can a person get.. than to use the BIBLE to excuse and condone adultery- to receive worldly pleaure from God's own sheep.. and his men towed the company line, followed in his footsteps. along comes j.s.'s little paper on adultery.. gear labels it unclean, and anyone who reads it possessed.. spoke outright LIES.. said it tries to invalidate vic's work.. promotes the trinity.. I wonder if he really read it. What a mess. The only high profile leader I personally know of that came out of that mess still has his marbles intact is Ra*ph D.. I can't say the same for the ces crowd..