Ham

perhaps. I think a lot of people don't consider that there is a living, human being on the other end of *that* opinion that may be offered at the time.. that's the "problem" with this format of communication.. Many offer themselves FREELY to this mix of humanity.. a lot drop their inhibitions.. think it is a safe place to do so.. reveal things we wouldn't tell our aunt or uncle.. along with a modicum of anomymity.. as far as common respect is concerned, I TRY to give it, and not expect it. The hams have a "fix" to this kinda problem.. the person is called "net control". It's the guy who starts the "thread" so to speak. If somebody wants to speak, it's through him. He reigns over the discussion, keeps it relevant, keeps the contributers in line.. Some threads here, I've seen the net control guy starts something and just jumps ship.. show up every few days or so, to see how things are going.. I guess I'm thinking out loud too..

heheh. I will gladly wear either description, or both, if or when they apply.. Sometimes though.. common sense would suggest to me.. that after thirty nine pages on the same subject.. I mean.. what's gonna be said has already been said..

I dunno. When it hits twenty, thirty.. forty pages.. maybe the said thread holds a different, useful purpose. And after forty some pages, what do you expect? People have already forgotten what the brawl is really about.. but really.. I know the forum rules.. try not to keep it "personal".. but how does one do that, and really *connect* with other people.. at some point it IS *personal*.. and may I add- REAL. jumping in at the fortieth page or so.. and asking Paw to save the "honor" of a thread is kinda futile.. I've seen some try recently. It just seems to me.. any RELEVANT (at least to the topic at hand) discussion has happened on the first three pages or so. Maybe.. the dynamics of things demand that one start a NEW thread.. not to ask that one intervene.. "fix" a woebegone thread.. take what's "relevant" to one's way of thinking.. or inquiry.. and RUN WITH IT.. well, it's just a thought.. :)

"good luck" well.. perhaps the strategy would be to start a new thread, where those who are blugeoning each other with the proverbial lead pipe will follow along to.. but that doesn't work most of the time either.. I've tried.. maybe it's a calling. "Here am I, blugeon me" I'm starting to think: that's why SOME people come here to begin with..

true. Unfortunately in der vey, they tossed the "Pauls" out on their ear, and fouled their name with descriptions of devil possession so no one would believe them.. most of those who confronted met answers such as "well, it's ok if you're spurtual enough.." then they didn't last much longer in "gawd's" ministry..

they tell me I smell pretty ripe when my fur is wet.. Not so bad as to use Mogbegone. Just a little Febreeze..

Oh yes.. "confrontation".. they had a whole "decade" of it I think.. I've seen "confrontation".. more like damage control. 1. ISOLATE the "incident".. this was the PRIMARY goal. Kinda like hazardous waste. Keep "it" from getting on anybody else.. put up a yellow tape around the "site".. "do not cross" devils wait on the other side.. 2. "educate" the few who are aware of the "incident". i.e. label the victim as possessed, weak, etc. etc.. Give a dozen or more good "biblical" reasons why disaster occured.. make sure they won't "glorify der debil" by talking about the incident with anyone outside of the small "cell".. It's STILL just sweeping more dirt under a carpet somewhere..

not quite. Not if the claim itself is true. "thank gawd for da man of gawd who is VALIANT to the TRUTH.." when in reality, the claim was "he was valiant for HIMSELF".. but we were taught to associate bad behavior with their "greatness", were we not? "a prophet is a HARD MAN TO LIVE WITH" "He's just edgey because he has to fight der devil all the live long day.." "he screams because he loves us so much.." "he needs sex so he isn't distracted when he teaches der verd" after a hair raising session: "wow, he sure is VALIANT for the TRUTH".. So there was an association formed. One person here, I told them "you remind me of someone in the old bible group I belonged to.." It wasn't exactly a compliment..

I didn't use your (screen)name, because you were not the intended "target". Now that you bring it up though.. this is "personal", but not an attack. What do people PERCEIVE in you? I think some perceive same kind of hard-heartedness, and recalcitrance that reminds them of someone in a "ministry", long long ago.. some not that long ago. The perception of course could be valid, or not valid. The forever "where's the proof, where's the dna, where's the..." most people here don't conveniently have a stained dress like ms lewinsky.. maybe all they have are their memories. That's a lot of what I have. So when you summarily dismiss people's recollections and memories, I think you remind them of someone higher up in a "ministry", long long ago.. hence one poster writes "I would find it hard to believe if he doesn't work for TWI". I have in the past brought legitimate claims before "leadership" only to have them summarily swept under a rug. And the leadership above them were informed. Guess what the leader's leader did? After a while, people quit bringing claims.. all is well, all is "peaceful" again.. Over half of my old "leadership" didin't like attention. They didn't like the spotlight on them.. no "controversy".. just keep sending in abs and monthly reports.. run classes.. anything go wrong.. under the rug it goes.. with isolated areas kinda nice, the whole system was corrupt. What you are finding here, is DECADES of old dirt swept under the carpet emerging. And there is enough, it isn't exactly easy to put it all back. I have a whole couple more rooms full of dirt to deal with.. wait till we get to that.. you may be a nice guy, or not.. maybe you're really female.. who knows who you are.. but you smell like "leadership".. I'm being polite. If I stink, and I know I do at times, I'm only human.. I'd like SOMEBODY to tell me..

I think it isn't a matter of prejudice.. it's more of maybe psychological conditioning. I personally learned to associate really bad behavior with the few who claimed to have the greatest commitment..

a typical vote: rosie would choose the eighth selection, loy would choose the ninth. if you are employed in the law firm which represents twi's interests, you may choose number eight. if you moved to another firm, choose number nine. :)

Just curious. note: "WORK FOR" and "WORKED FOR" both have a negative connotation.

I know.. there were a lot of sincere, God loving.. you name it.. people who were on staff or in the corps.. and they're in it to work for what they perceive as God.. There may even still BE some there.. but really.. how is that we. or at least some of us, when we perceive what we consider the worst of human nature.. say, "He (or she) must work for twi".. some of the WORST behavior I've observed was not from just "normal" staffers, corps.. it was those who they really WORKED for twi.. It's a barb I wouldn't exactly want thrown in my direction..

Satori.. did I ever tell you I love you? really.. as a brother. I hope you consider me one.. :)

this is the one.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JecyHi0YAw4...feature=related

bringing back for related discussion..

Here's another one they shuffled around till he found the "right place" in der ministry.. Court "approved" proof.. Here's a thread from one of the victims: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=46 note even with a CONVICTION.. the apologizers for der vey come forward.. "couldn't be, he INSISTED he was innocent" "what's the big deal about a judge and jury throwing the book at him.." "a conviction doesn't PROVE ANYTHING".. that pretty much summarizes how I read LLP's responses to this recent development in gawd's "ministry".. sounds like I struck a dark chord..

obviously not.. even when you could have the phone number to interview the "other side" of the story.. naw. Nobody seems to be requesting your services to serve as "prosecutor" in this "case" here.. why go through the trouble of asking for pure, unadulterated evidence.. police reports.. court records of convictions.. no one appears to be asking for your services to act as some kind of "arbitrator".. and obviously, twi doesn't think they need to arbitrate or fix any wrongs.. don't take this as an attack, but an observation. Do you have something personally involved in this business, to discount the claims and evidence offered by scores of people? I don't really expect an answer.. maybe just ask it of yourself..

Oh.. Paw does let us name names if they were real high profile "leaders(?)".. like Townsend, Geer.. how you could call gear "high profile" is beyond me though.. maybe he made a high profile stink at der vey, but he was just another motorcoach driver carrying a handgun.. the limb guy was a less rate lackey than geero, at least at the time.. I wonder if he found another "home" in the geer "organization"..

I have so proved my allegations. If you wish to verify my proof and observations, you certainly may. Unless I'm mistaken, I thought you were looking for "fair and balanced reporting".. wanted to hear the details from the other side.. here's the golden opportunity. there are a couple reasons I won't name names in the open here.. 1. forum rules forbid it. Unless said person is a bod or bot, past/current member.. 2. I DO have a FEW scruples left..

I can only guess why you are not taking me up on my "kind" offer. He even has a current phone number in the white pages.. best I know he's still alive. You want verifiable proof? Just one phone call.. I bet it would be a "stab from the past.." Personally, I don't have the heart to do it. I'd hate to hear a grown man cry..

If you live where I think you do.. the call wouldn't even be long distance.. :)

see.. you could ask him PERSONALLY what kind of "details" I left out of the little "stowry".. 1. where the women could flee from this kind of nonsense, practically in the dead of winter.. you know.. "don't like it? well.. you can walk home.." 2. what to do with the kids at the time.. or one.. 3. .............. 4. what it did to a young "ham" to watch this kind of stupid abusive ...... I'm sure he'd provide a few answers..

would you like the name and phone number of the now "retired" limb guy who counselled "maidens" to "just get laid".. "get over it".. ? I'm sure he'd give details.. even answer a few questions.. give something the "other side" could tell.. with the right kind of prompting, though he probably wishes that this whole Way Ministry scenario would just go away.. He shows up on a Zaba search. No, I will not reveal the guy's name, address or phone number on a public forum here, unless he was an old "trustee".. There are a FEW rules to abide by.. I'd even give MY name. You could ask him: what about the little "meeting" in (city, state).. when "ham" was present, and he "counselled" his *men* to ABUSE their wives.. on cue.. during the () time of year.. 19XX.. along with names of those present.. there was the #@%!@'s, and the ^*&$@'s there.. I'm sure they don't forget. Of course, the "men" are probably single now..

Personally, I think a LOT of what we consider our destiny was something we agreed on a long time ago. Perhaps we just can't remember making the agreement.. I don't think it's so much about the destination, maybe more about seeing the sights along the way..