Ham

not quite. Not if the claim itself is true. "thank gawd for da man of gawd who is VALIANT to the TRUTH.." when in reality, the claim was "he was valiant for HIMSELF".. but we were taught to associate bad behavior with their "greatness", were we not? "a prophet is a HARD MAN TO LIVE WITH" "He's just edgey because he has to fight der devil all the live long day.." "he screams because he loves us so much.." "he needs sex so he isn't distracted when he teaches der verd" after a hair raising session: "wow, he sure is VALIANT for the TRUTH".. So there was an association formed. One person here, I told them "you remind me of someone in the old bible group I belonged to.." It wasn't exactly a compliment..

I didn't use your (screen)name, because you were not the intended "target". Now that you bring it up though.. this is "personal", but not an attack. What do people PERCEIVE in you? I think some perceive same kind of hard-heartedness, and recalcitrance that reminds them of someone in a "ministry", long long ago.. some not that long ago. The perception of course could be valid, or not valid. The forever "where's the proof, where's the dna, where's the..." most people here don't conveniently have a stained dress like ms lewinsky.. maybe all they have are their memories. That's a lot of what I have. So when you summarily dismiss people's recollections and memories, I think you remind them of someone higher up in a "ministry", long long ago.. hence one poster writes "I would find it hard to believe if he doesn't work for TWI". I have in the past brought legitimate claims before "leadership" only to have them summarily swept under a rug. And the leadership above them were informed. Guess what the leader's leader did? After a while, people quit bringing claims.. all is well, all is "peaceful" again.. Over half of my old "leadership" didin't like attention. They didn't like the spotlight on them.. no "controversy".. just keep sending in abs and monthly reports.. run classes.. anything go wrong.. under the rug it goes.. with isolated areas kinda nice, the whole system was corrupt. What you are finding here, is DECADES of old dirt swept under the carpet emerging. And there is enough, it isn't exactly easy to put it all back. I have a whole couple more rooms full of dirt to deal with.. wait till we get to that.. you may be a nice guy, or not.. maybe you're really female.. who knows who you are.. but you smell like "leadership".. I'm being polite. If I stink, and I know I do at times, I'm only human.. I'd like SOMEBODY to tell me..

I think it isn't a matter of prejudice.. it's more of maybe psychological conditioning. I personally learned to associate really bad behavior with the few who claimed to have the greatest commitment..

a typical vote: rosie would choose the eighth selection, loy would choose the ninth. if you are employed in the law firm which represents twi's interests, you may choose number eight. if you moved to another firm, choose number nine. :)

Just curious. note: "WORK FOR" and "WORKED FOR" both have a negative connotation.

I know.. there were a lot of sincere, God loving.. you name it.. people who were on staff or in the corps.. and they're in it to work for what they perceive as God.. There may even still BE some there.. but really.. how is that we. or at least some of us, when we perceive what we consider the worst of human nature.. say, "He (or she) must work for twi".. some of the WORST behavior I've observed was not from just "normal" staffers, corps.. it was those who they really WORKED for twi.. It's a barb I wouldn't exactly want thrown in my direction..

Satori.. did I ever tell you I love you? really.. as a brother. I hope you consider me one.. :)

this is the one.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JecyHi0YAw4...feature=related

bringing back for related discussion..

Here's another one they shuffled around till he found the "right place" in der ministry.. Court "approved" proof.. Here's a thread from one of the victims: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=46 note even with a CONVICTION.. the apologizers for der vey come forward.. "couldn't be, he INSISTED he was innocent" "what's the big deal about a judge and jury throwing the book at him.." "a conviction doesn't PROVE ANYTHING".. that pretty much summarizes how I read LLP's responses to this recent development in gawd's "ministry".. sounds like I struck a dark chord..

obviously not.. even when you could have the phone number to interview the "other side" of the story.. naw. Nobody seems to be requesting your services to serve as "prosecutor" in this "case" here.. why go through the trouble of asking for pure, unadulterated evidence.. police reports.. court records of convictions.. no one appears to be asking for your services to act as some kind of "arbitrator".. and obviously, twi doesn't think they need to arbitrate or fix any wrongs.. don't take this as an attack, but an observation. Do you have something personally involved in this business, to discount the claims and evidence offered by scores of people? I don't really expect an answer.. maybe just ask it of yourself..

Oh.. Paw does let us name names if they were real high profile "leaders(?)".. like Townsend, Geer.. how you could call gear "high profile" is beyond me though.. maybe he made a high profile stink at der vey, but he was just another motorcoach driver carrying a handgun.. the limb guy was a less rate lackey than geero, at least at the time.. I wonder if he found another "home" in the geer "organization"..

I have so proved my allegations. If you wish to verify my proof and observations, you certainly may. Unless I'm mistaken, I thought you were looking for "fair and balanced reporting".. wanted to hear the details from the other side.. here's the golden opportunity. there are a couple reasons I won't name names in the open here.. 1. forum rules forbid it. Unless said person is a bod or bot, past/current member.. 2. I DO have a FEW scruples left..

I can only guess why you are not taking me up on my "kind" offer. He even has a current phone number in the white pages.. best I know he's still alive. You want verifiable proof? Just one phone call.. I bet it would be a "stab from the past.." Personally, I don't have the heart to do it. I'd hate to hear a grown man cry..

If you live where I think you do.. the call wouldn't even be long distance.. :)

see.. you could ask him PERSONALLY what kind of "details" I left out of the little "stowry".. 1. where the women could flee from this kind of nonsense, practically in the dead of winter.. you know.. "don't like it? well.. you can walk home.." 2. what to do with the kids at the time.. or one.. 3. .............. 4. what it did to a young "ham" to watch this kind of stupid abusive ...... I'm sure he'd provide a few answers..

would you like the name and phone number of the now "retired" limb guy who counselled "maidens" to "just get laid".. "get over it".. ? I'm sure he'd give details.. even answer a few questions.. give something the "other side" could tell.. with the right kind of prompting, though he probably wishes that this whole Way Ministry scenario would just go away.. He shows up on a Zaba search. No, I will not reveal the guy's name, address or phone number on a public forum here, unless he was an old "trustee".. There are a FEW rules to abide by.. I'd even give MY name. You could ask him: what about the little "meeting" in (city, state).. when "ham" was present, and he "counselled" his *men* to ABUSE their wives.. on cue.. during the () time of year.. 19XX.. along with names of those present.. there was the #@%!@'s, and the ^*&$@'s there.. I'm sure they don't forget. Of course, the "men" are probably single now..

Personally, I think a LOT of what we consider our destiny was something we agreed on a long time ago. Perhaps we just can't remember making the agreement.. I don't think it's so much about the destination, maybe more about seeing the sights along the way..

Yeah. The last meeting I had with this whatever he was.. In a high squeaky voice.. no joke.. his wife sounded like a baritone compared to him.. "If I were you, I'd spill my guts. We KNOW something is wrong with you.. let's hear it.." and he was MINDLESS. He didn't have a clue.. he grasping at straws, trying to figure out who the "troublemaker" was in his limb.. who was standing in front of the great prevailing power of gawd, who was just begging to send new people our way to be confronted into oblivion.. I said.. "hmmm. OK.. let me think about it, I'll get back with you." He looked like he got a punch in the stomach.. "duhhhh, wellll, OK... that's a good idea.. ummmm.." at that very moment.. I saw that I was had.. had by false threats and promises.. had by a group of madmen, for YEARS..

Sincerely, I'd like to give thanks, for rosie, loy, and the bod, for their remarkable insight, in sending this numbnut to my state, and helping me to see the truth for what it in reality is..

I think he was "special corps". one of the special, the few, the brave, the foolhardy.. maybe one of the requirements for his assignment was to huff a prescribed amount of glue.. "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome your leadership for 20XX".. but his wife.. was a "FOX" with a capital F... and if anybody had the brains in the family, it was her.. Even at the time, I wondered if loy put them together, knowing she'd be able keep track of him.. "now honey, we put our LEFT foot in the LEFT shoe.." I honestly couldn't see what she saw in him.. I had my suspicions and at time doubts.. but when they sent this guy out on the field.. I finally saw I was following a boatload of lunatics..

he had a dull, dumb, content look on his face, as he fondly described his bread and vegetables.. no joke.. I thought at the time, if I handed him a loaf of italian bread or a bagel, he'd start petting it.. sowy.. no idea what got me on this.. He was a mini-loy. I can see loy and him together in residence, spending quality time.. "we eat our bread, we do not pet it, mini-me.."

probably when they said "release to us Barabbas". Let em go.. a charismatic leader ya know.. really "moved da word" in Israel. Kinda like "let's let loy off da hook.." "or vic".. or "he who walks in darkness, but never mixes his bread and vegetables". Oh.. that was my last limb coordinator's claim to fame. The mixing of bread and vegetables part that is. That's what they taught him in da corps ya know. Really.. no joke. you know. Mark and avoid someone with honest questions or doubts.. have a stalk of celery.. defame another brother in christ.. have some green beans.. but no bread. His way of averting gastrointestinal disaster.. and people think I'm nutty.. How they could ordain someone with the intellectual acumen of a third grader.. and the common sense of a lemming, in charge of a whole state and then region.. well, that's "der vey" in a nutshell.. he's probably on the prez's cabinet now..

well, they say old cheese is the best.. :) but who's letting it get older? It's not my cheese. Belongs to der vey.. let them come and claim it. It's smelling worse every day..

Of course, those who were close to the top who confronted anybody about this.. look what happened to Ra*ph D.. Other people were told "it's none of your business".. Here.. I'll try for you Bumpy. "*mr* linder, a formal statement is being requested by the Squirrel as to the nature of these allegations. Please infom rosie that we demand a formal statment as to the number of "affairs" the old pres had, along with acts of abuse and cruelty, the number of "affairs" and acts of abuse that occured under her watch, why to this day der vey refuses to acknowledge to true cause of death of it's founder, why the founder participated in fraud and documented plagiarism, how many alleged druggings and rapes she may have aware of, etc.. etc.." and an answer to the ALLEGATIONS based on others observations of the nature of the relationship between the current pres and the last pres's (ex?) wife. why in God's name.. you think you own the copyright to one of Jesus's names.. Oh.. and why "they" tried pegging the failures of da ministry on others, and more specifically, the Squirrel, saying "we KNOW something is wrong here.." when the evil they sought was merely in their own laps.. we're just getting warmed up with a few innocent little questions. No big deal. I'm sure *they* will be along shortly.. Maybe they'll send rico with a letter or something.. unless someone else is in charge of the nuts and pea soup department now..