Ham

The only thing I wish.. is that some of the *others* who know me would read some of this stuff.. they might not agree entirely.. but at least they might understand.. I'm sure somebody's keeping record here.. :)

Maybe that's the key to hearing the voice of the guy from the past. To know of some pretty vile crap that's coming.. yet not to do anything to intervene.. even if you know what's coming.. you are forbidden to become involved.. sheesh. I wish people wouldn't start threads like this..

I dunno.. I think that "we" are connected.. past and future.. there have been a few times.. I really think when it's REALLY mattered.. I've listened to the voice of the guy from the future :) It just takes something pretty.. what's the word.. serious.. for some clueless moron walking through life, to pay some real attention to..

:) I dunno.. If I didn't take some damn fool bible class in 1974.. If I didn't put up with a bunch of hooey.. If I didn't go wow in 77.. if I didn't end up with these two kids.. perhaps things would be different. It's just.. they are SO wonderful.. was it all worth it? would I consciously undo it all? No.. never. even if I knew what kinda crap was really going on the inner circle.. perhaps I'd scare the hell out of them.. with stuff that nobody else living knew.. but as far as my PERSONAL destiny is concerned.. I wouldn't touch it.. sound strange?

what would I write to myself.. well.. 1. Finish college you dumbass.. 2. You'd better show up in Michigan in 1977. Meet so and so and have the two wonderful kids you ended up with.. somehow. It's too hard. I'd have to somehow do all of the good things I ended up doing.. while avoiding the ...... I dunno. If it was just me.. I could think of dozens of better sceneraios.. but add people to the equation.. and it all doesn't really seem to make a lot of difference..

remember the rules though. Shoot first, THEN ask the poor guy if he's really a zombie..

just brining this to the top for the new folks around here. You'll want to know who and what you're dealing with ya know..

I still think that a group which would bury a work which called adultery sin under a blanket of drama and intrigue.. not a "research" organization. academically, one might call the paper juvenile, but it was at least honest.. it speaks to me, of the juvenile mindset the organization itself had with regard to honest research. If the work is original, yet faults the proclivities of the upper ups, we bury it.. If the work is good enough, and flashy enough to draw in more crowds, we steal it.. and they actually appointed loy boy as head of research.. I really think they were at the end of their rope.. he'd already chased off anybody with half a brain.

over half the time I was involved with der vey, I didn't even HAVE a car.. ah.. I remember being sent to pray for some poor old guy in a hospital.. and he died anyway.. branch leader was otherwise occupied. I think perhaps he didn't want "failure" on his hands as well.. I knew who I was almost a decade before I took the class. I've since returned to a lot of my roots. Of course, "da most holy of der vey" would describe that as a dog returning to his vomit.. I've spent the most part of a decade reclaiming what I lost or had merely given away.

are you sure that's not Alice? ate a coupla mushrooms.. followed a cult leader that resembled a wabbit down a hole..

I think cruse would have been as badly behaved if he were in twi.. generally speaking I think these "celebrity" types can pretty much do WHATEVER they want in one of these kinda organizations.. maybe they own him like he owns them. I wonder how many of his "mistakes" in life they know where are buried..

I can't see the justification for the price of a plane ticket from Scotland to the U.S. to come hear pfal or some other equally ridiculous "verd as it hath not been known since the first century" warmed over nonsense.. maybe that's not it at all. Maybe they come to "enjoy" his *wonderful* personality..

"I feel very hopeful and optimistic" and for the life of me, I can't find a single logical reason..

Well.. to me twi seems to have proven that it is indeed NOT a christian organization. they are not a church as such.. maybe on the coroporation and tax papers to maintain a tax free status. P*ul A**en did it right.. he confronted the then trustees. Their reaction? Well.. let's just mark and avoid him.. label him possessed.. worked before ya know. I think he found there was none among them wise enough to sit as some kind of biblical "judge" of sorts. No arbitrator, or even the possibility of any kind of arbitration, outside of legal action. At least he got loy defrocked.

and may I add.. it wasn't an accomplishment that could be attributed to an intellectual "giant" either.. It's kinda like.. duh.. anybody with a little common sense, and who just reads the BIBLE once or so has to get it.. the "smart guys" of da then ministry labelled it possessed.. research ministry? I really don't think so.

I don't know if der vey was ever a research ministry either. Perhaps there were people on staff one time who could actually DO research.. but look at Schoenheit's little paper on adultery. Perhaps it was about the most original work produced, and ethically and biblically as honest as anyone in der ministry at the time could produce. and what did they do with that little item?

I prefer the description of "pathetic".. ya know.. when the crapola REALLY hits the fan.. he'll be like.. maybe the Himmler and Goering types might sit with him in his bunker.. until they find something else better to do..

Only eight votes? OK.. one more chance for you wascals to cast your ballot here..

a few further thoughts on this. Only the "few".. the "faithful".. THOSE WHO FORKED OUT OVER TEN PERCENT of their incomes.. were those deemed "worthy" enough to do all this and more.. weird. maybe it's human nature. Put a big enough price tag on a broken down, decaying house, spray it with the right kind of personna, and "anybody who's anybody" just HAS to have it.. I mean.. who is going to buy the Brooklyn Bridge for $9.95? For most individuals, I really think the legalism started with the very first session of the class..

Hey.. maybe you could try that on the rest of the numbnuts..

ah.. when did the legalism start.. perhaps from the time the old vicster incorporated pfal (alias for "Gifts of the Spirit") into twi-dom. "I AGREE to attend every session ON TIME to receive the benefits of this class.." I don't entirely object to the requirement. College classes are like that.. they don't really LIKE people meandering in fifteen minutes into class, needing a "catch up" with what one has already covered for everyone else.. but I think in the case of pfal, it was one of the little "stepping stones" along the way to some pretty harsh legalism.. sure.. show up on time. No big deal.. but then.. "well, gaw'd's time is five minutes early.." or ten, or fifteen.. then you're showing up an hour and a half or more early, to clean the leader's house, mow the lawn.. get the refreshments ready.. remove lipstick and teeth marks from used styrofoam cups.. check all the audio video stuff.. it's almost a "natural" progression on the road to "success(?)". all of this is based on one's ASSUMPTION, often based on the reports of many glassy eyed others who may have used to be your friends, that the class was actually WORTH the EFFORT of showing up on time.. "want results? you gotta GIVE something.." I think it was more along the lines of "give in somewhere".

hmm.. interesting. I think the vey channel would probably have a pretty close resemblence to the History Channel. Just the existence of the world would be dated as starting sometime late in 1942..

Thanks friend. I know.. still it's a paycheck to paycheck life. Not that I'm complaining.. it IS a life.. and like I said, I'm really happy here.. don't feel sorry for myself. Just could have done a little better.. but I'm working on that. :) I really consider those in der vey, especially on the board level, worse off than me. What kinda life is THAT? Don't have anything much better to do with their time than.. carefully guard their pile of cash.. but that's "tricky". You have to have guards, guards to guard the guards.. guards to guard the guards that guard the guards.. and there ARE a few rules.. they can't legally just dip into the funds any old way they see fit, at least LEGALLY. They are so bored that they don't have anything better than jealously guard their "precious" copyrights.. to outdated materials, almost fifty years old.. a product, which would interest only a VERY limited market. I've never seen anybody try to sell any bootleg copies of loy's class.. no Belezian group busy with the copiers.. IT WOULD NOT SELL. Even to those in the VERY limited market. But those at the top seem to be so bored.. they consider "surfing da web" as looking for SMALL, unwary, "lookalike" organizations to throw to the lawyers.. There is no monetary gain for doing so. Not that I can see, anyway. Maybe it's like the ancient days of Rome in decline.. throwing Christians to the lions (lawyers) just for some kind of "harmless" diversion..

of course forum rules forbid me from naming names.. other than high profile kinda folks, or trustees/directors.. but this particular person.. if he were to come forward.. I wouldn't give him a hard time. Probably could really fill in a few details.. see.. the character really did cause me some damage.. but I'm not vindictive. I've caused a little damage myself.. maybe not as much.. but I'm sure with the right kind of backing I very well may have done so.. the character might even be in your zip code..

but WD.. like your answer to me.. "don't worry about me.." see.. if it didn't REALLY happen to me.. In my little mind of minds, I honestly THINK it did.. see.. at the best.. they've produced an environment that convinces me that it indeed has. The counsel I saw a young lady receive from one who was supposedly in "authority".. under direct auspices of the vicster himself... "just get laid and get over it".. along with a half a dozen other folks who could hear the same counselling session.. oh.. through two solid oak doors.. perhaps it was an elaborate ruse, produced simply so I would mistakenly remember it as some kind of reality.. who in their RIGHT mind would simply tell some LADY to simply schmooze in the "right" way with some scumbag anyway..