Ham

Yeah.. might be a good rehab program. If the said youngster doesn't know which end of the brush to hold.. or needs help figuring out what a day's labor is about.. but as a an "honors" program.. or "training" for the supposed elite? I know SOME good came out of the vey corps.. but I also observed several "good kids" that got turned into goons.. and sent forth by his goonship.. If it's an honors program of sorts.. why are they going back to what I perceive as BASICS? Learn how to work a job.. learn how to read the bible.. learn how to persevere in perhaps more austere circumstances.. it would seem to me, that these would be prerequistites to anything considered an "honors" curriculum. I still have a sour feeling in my stomach about this.. plus who's trained for what of those staffing the place.. If they think my questions are unreasonable.. I would suggest- try getting liability insurance for the thing, and see what kind of response you get. :)

Plus they don't have the financial wherwithall (at least that I know of) to simply bulldoze people who are "disgruntled".. or a big enough of an organization to cover it up to the point "it never happened".. or a team of lawyers to litigate the complaint into the next century.. Shouldn't bother them with these kind of "sense knowledge minded" details.. it's a walk by faith, brotha.. :)

I don't think the "outrage" is so much over 25 year old "sins".. I think it's over them being covered over, perpeptuated, duplicated over, and over, and over again.. to the present. People spoke up "way back then".. and the system just kept moving on after they were run off.

Way Corps II. The next, or should I say, the third generation.. I think most people here know who it is.. just didn't wanna name names on this thread, at least yet.

Why set up a system, or a "training program" where one has the possibility of having grovelling followers, and the power of summary judgment over other people's lives, if one does NOT have the intentions of actually allowing them to grovel, and kick their a** just "because"? No real checks and balances.. no REAL trained staff.. probably not any kinda trained medical personnel in case people get hurt in the middle of nowhere.. maybe they can just (make)believe.. and then convince people that this "priviledge" is God's will for their lives.. a year and a half, and they can be gawd's "elite"? If it was some kinda "rehab" or something.. to help get someone on their feet, physically fit, back into SCHOOL.. or on a path to a career- it would sound a heck of a lot more "humanitarian" or "godly" to me.. well, one thing I can smell- lawsuit. Even if you have a fifty page long hold harmless agreement, a court very well may rule that a REASONABLE (or sane) person would not sign it.. and award compensation anyway. How many acres do you say you have?

The worst part of it.. I think.. the REPEATED demands for TRUST after trust has been broken.. the complete denial.. that they wash their hands like anyone else in the civilized world..

I think these religious scam artists are WORSE than anything the world has to offer. I've been scammed out of money before.. and at the end of the day, it was only money.

PT Barnum was at least a little more honest about it.. he still made a fortune.

and lest we forget, vic was NOT a king. Saul was a king, Solomon was a king, David was a king. But vic, no. Maybe in his OWN mind perhaps.. he wasn't a judge either.. like Samson, Gideon.. *ahem* he wasn't a prophet either.. too many failed "conditional prophecies" and the like. so.. why compare him to what he was not? We have a whole new generation of this nonsense rearing it's ugly head.. and it can't honestly acknowledge what those who went before did, without whitewashing it and sanitizing it. Despite one sided edicts and perhaps their best efforts, they one day will get their evaluations as well.. in a place like this. I hope it's better than what the ancestor got..

Reminds me of a "stowry".. I think this is close to the way I heard it.. This old guy lived his life in pleasure, crushing his competition, chasing every young woman he saw, bought and burned down the local church and orphanage to make a parking lot.. so he dies. He arrives at the pearly gates, and st. peter says "we haven't had one like this.. hasn't done a SINGLE good thing for anybody.." His assistant says.. "naw.. we can let him in.. he gave a begger five dollars once in 1928.." Peter calls the cashier.. produces a five.. "here, you can have a refund."

"accomplishments..(?)" I think he sowed tares and weeds in his field.. that's his legacy. Every time he went into a Drambuie induced "spiritual" rage.. he sowed a handful.. every time he laid his greasy hands on one the ladies under his charge.. he sowed whole bucket fulls.. every single time he accepted credit for work that was not his own.. he was sowing even more seeds for misery and disgrace. every time he accepted bribes from the taskmasters who helped "rule" over the flock.. every little "fib", fabrication, or outright lie.. which SOMEBODY would eventually call him on. I really think he was "believing" for the kind of shame his name is now associated with. but he could put on a fair speech.

I dunno. Consider the "accomplishments".. the vicster didn't exactly have the wisdom of Solomon.. or the strength of Samson.. or the eloquence of Apollos.. he did end up having the morals of Solomon though.. perhaps worse. he WAS successful in building a house of cards that a moron in a tight jump suit managed to tear down in a few short years.. along with a few dedicated yes men..

I think.. after twenty five years.. one just may be looking for the same kind of connection with others one experienced, or thought they experienced at the beginning. I don't think it really had anything to do with "the word" as such. Nor do I think it was entirely an illusion. Maybe it was just taken advantage of..

Actually, I've "moved on". I've gotten involved in the community.. higher education, etc.. I think quite a few of us have. But there's one strange place in the world.. a language and vocabulary that practically no one else can understand.. why do I keep coming back.. sheesh.. I don't know.. I think this place sometimes warns those who may enter the "hallowed(?)" doors.. but I think it really is more than that. It's where the evaluations of old leadership gone by, and even perhaps for the "new" guard is being written. It's a luxury that many of us were not allowed in the old ministry. I never got a form to fill out when the bestest and latest corpses local coordinators would move on. Here, I can give them an HONEST evaluation. For me, I'm sure it's not entirely anonymous. What's even more interesting.. I can read the evaluations given by others. You'd think the old organization would give half a damn about something like this..

Sometimes I think the place is more about the party. I'd rather just have fun.. but I hope I can help someone else in the process..

Was he the same character as the reputed six foot wabbit? :)

which didn't exactly prove a "problem" for them.. they just kept up until they'd find the "right" kind of personality who would..

I'd just toss it out the side door here, but with the EPA watchdogs around here.. I wouldn't dare.. the local landfill won't take it either..

the religious seem to be the most cruel. I know of one who was made to feel helpless and inferior because he found his wife was being boinked continually by the then supposed mog.. yes, he committed suicide as well. His last known words to a friend- "I just can't compete with him (lcm)".. the only difference between him and loy, at least in my opinion.. loy had the benefit of meds and docs when he was cut loose.. the ONLY reason I think they stood behind him.. was NOT for humanitarian reasons or anything. He got them in soooo much "trouble".. I don't think they had an ounce of compassion. I think it was only to save the organization.. imagine the local newspaper.. ""retired" mogster snuffs himself in a fit of despair.." it would have been the real end of the organization.. in my opinion anyway.. I'd say "God have mercy on those scumbuckets.." but it's not up to me..

I don't hold a grudge either. I just keep it warm on the back burner in the unlikely event they might want to partake of their own concoction. But it doesn't really belong to me anymore. It was largely THEIR recipe, not mine.. I'm not entirely heartless. I don't think anybody should eat it cold..

It could be titled "Da Vey, a Field of Nightmares: The story of a good(?) Cult gone bad.." "if you build it, *they* will come.." It might be more suited to something like Stephen King would write

Maybe it means something to somebody here.. who knows.. then again, I often have a pretty vivid imagination and if beating the weeds with the shovel fails, send in the lawyers wearing dark glasses and trenchcoats, to take a "deposition". "Now Mahhhm, how did you FEEL when you as you reputedly claim the greasy mogster laid his *holy hands* on you?" "well, I was confused.." "and?" "well, I was a little angry.." "Mahhhm.. make up your mind. First you say you were confused, then you say you were angry. Which was it?"

I dunno. I have this little movie playing in my head.. Some clueless hell, fire and brimstone preacher out in his field of weeds.. with a shovel. Trying to beat them down with the shovel. All the while invoking and swearing.. "Down in da name of Jaysus.. down. Down I say.." I think it's gonna take just a tad more effort than that..

In a sense, I think they were "believing for failure". They've sown and inherited a field full of weeds and tares.. I don't know if anybody else noticed, but weeds are pretty agressive.. better get busy fella..

I dunno. Just because I like someone, doesn't mean I accept everything they say as truth. Then again, my motto isn't exactly "trust no one" either.. when I here accounts of ladies being "counselled" in the old days with something like "just get over it and get laid".. I tend to find their claims to be credible. Why? I've seen and heard this kinda thing at least twice. And that was only because the damned limb leader was reckless at the time. Screaming obscenities, and loud enough to heardthrough two solid doors.. so, yeah.. I find a similar account VERY credible. Or people relating living in a rather vulnerable circumstance, being screamed at they are a disgrace to the word, to God himself and the "ministry".. to pack their .... and IMMEDIATELY leave.. yeah, I find it credible. Something VERY similar to this happened to me.. and in a very similar circumstance. Or stories from women about physical and verbal abuse from the then spouse, sanctioned by "leaders" at the LIMB level and up.. I find it VERY credible. Why? I saw it happen, PERSONALLY. For these old "leaders".. life must be terrifying. It's like the night of the living dead. No matter how many times they beat the old corpses with a shovel, i.e., "just get over it and forgive like Jaysuss".. they keep coming back, to haunt them, again, and again, and again.. I can understand them. Don't exactly feel much pity for them though.. :)