Ham

Neither of my kids are involved with twi.. or an offshoot. Maybe that's all I ought to say..

And a new organization that can't answer a few polite, but pointed questions.. "see, this is what happened with the same kind of system and rules. what are you doing to keep it from happening again?" "happened twenty years ago. Doesn't mean anything now.." or "we're just trying to move the word.. what are YOU doing?", or "fighting *them* to keep *them* from doing their thing isn't really a godly, noble cause, you should be doing what gawd wants you to do, in da BIBLE.." kind of answers makes every hair on my body stand on end.. at least there are fewer on top to succumb to this, in recent years..

I just think when the hucksters use the bible to silence their victims, there's a whole other level of betrayal of a human being. And they've trained others to do the same. "speak the same thing.." "only magnify the word.. gawd forbid we magnify da debil with gossip or negatives.." "you HAVE to forgive.." "this little matter is not important. It's da WORD that's at stake.." "wouldn't it just be EASIER to forgive.." It would have been a heck of a lot easier if these gods in their own estimation kept their hands to themselves.. and didn't play with people's lives.

Hey, I knew that friend.. I wasn't asking you.. :)

I think a pretty close comparison can be made. A short exerpt of Michael Reagan's article: http://caglecartoons.com/column.asp?column...D632A462AC14%7D I've heard when they prey on multiple victims, they set the rules of how one is to be treated by the community when he or she betrays the "secret".. da vey's tactics, when things went "wrong"? Threaten them with the prospect that if they reveal the act, that they'll ruin the bible, the ministry, and gawd's gonna be really, really dissapointed. Or if that doesn't work, run them off grounds, mark them as possessed.. or worse. Some were not able to speak of it for decades.. the few who come forward seem to have their motives questioned.. demand of details and evidence to back up the claims.. raw dismissal because some can't remember whether the room it happened had red drapes, or green.. pretty apparent to me that we had a community with a conditioned response. Somebody who'd make such a "wild" claim would just HAVE to be possessed.. we were "owned".. do "they" still own YOU? I think that this isn't really off topic. I think that's part of the pattern of abuse. The community or some in it demanding forgiveness for the abuser.. "aw, he didn't mean it.. it wasn't his fault.. he's just distracted..after all, he feeds us.. buys us candy.. lay off him and just forgive.."

And that is precisely why many were abused, run over, and run off. No personal will.. is it? or is their will what they THINK scripture declares? when something is devilish and harmful, I think the scriptures demand us to SCREAM.. even if it's "after the fact". I was talking with one of my kids about something like this last night. There's a *certain* situation where "they" would merely counter, "well, we don't talk about that kinda stuff.. we just want to magnify the WORD.." she says it's the language of abuse. Their will is broken, as I think you have described.. "no personal will when it comes to the word(?).." they've been TRAINED to not talk about the abuse. that's what abusers DO.. lockbox stuff comes right out of molestation 101. It's a SECRET.

true, but sometimes I think being able to properly pronounce "pneuma" or other such words only applied a veneer of legitimacy on some of the madness.

sadly, the "contest" looks like a group of men wielding clubs.. with bystanders taking bets on who is going to be the last one left standing.. it USED to be, he who knew more greek words and memorized enough of old "doc"'s stuff had the bigger club.

I dunno. I don't think we were ever really dead at any one given time..

"I've become my own grampa.." luckily for me, they didn't live much beyond fifty..

why is it.. some become the "preacher of righteousness" that they despise.. or at least despised at one time in their life..

He's on a mission..

were you? I wasn't. Someone USING the bible taught me how to IGNORE those emotions, how to disregard them, can them up, or "rein them in". How to suck it in, and take one more punch for "the lord".. Put off? No. "Grieve with them that grieve, mourn with them that mourn" must be innappropriate. Just put em off.. Israel MOURNED for what was it.. sixty days for the death of Moses.. mustve been some pretty rotten "believers".. only the priest could not mourn, for father, for mother..

Double post friend, but it was worth saying twice. :)

Thanks, that did it. Now I've got another song to deal with all day.

Some people walked off thinking "if that's how a God has to work, there must not even BE one.."

A lot of us thought that when we left the "hallowed walls" of "zion", we were leaving God behind.

I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Ways 'R Us kid.. There's a zillion weird unique doctrines that I can play with.. more classes and "twigs", training programs and gigs, It's the biggest(?) and baddest thing there is! I don't want to grow because then if I did.. I wouldn't be a Ways 'R Us kid! Help get this song out of my head..

A bad acid trip is a walk in the park compared to what some of these people went through..

Having to explain to someone in admissions that you put off getting a degree, in what you're REALLY good at until you're fifty because you p*ssed away twenty five years in a "religious group" (note that I'm being kind here) isn't really all so bad..

And to the "old geezers" on the "board", I say: If it's just a matter of midlife crisis, or change or something.. go to the local store, get a bottle of "herbal calm" or something.. figure out how to ride the wave of the hormones and brain chemicals. Worked for me. Though some may need something a little "stronger".. :) Then go back to school or something.. get a hobby.. get a degree maybe.. make a REAL difference for somebody.. even if it's secular.. being a fifty some year old "waysRus" kid is kinda pathetic.. the bible will actually STILL be around fifty or so years from now, despite your efforts or lack therof.

The only difference between me and them: I was partly prepared to deal with what was going on.. and I could still function somewhat normally in society at the time. Go to work, talk to friends, etc.. Probably scared the hell out of some of them.. I can see how these poor folks could just give up..

Maybe if one has never had been knocked that far out of equilibrium, they just can't understand it.. when it happened to me it was surreal.. I had built up some logical reasoning before then. Found myself looking at myself saying.. oh, I know what brain chemicals those are.. I'm probably STILL nuts.. naw.. the lady in the white smock says I'm OK.

I dunno. What appears insignificant for one, may be devastating for another. Imagine finding that your "loving" wife is being "boinked" by another man. Not too "big" a deal- "just get over it".. but the other "man" is supposed to be one who lives "the word" in a manner that his life is above reproach. The betrayal is more than two-fold.. he's also your employer. you've been taught to suppress strong emotions, such as anger, revenge, etc. by this very "man".. and you find yourself having a stream of emotions that you are in no way prepared to deal with.. in a flash, you realize that almost EVERYTHYING you've been told is just plain WRONG.. You're "done".. twenty years on the job, and you can't bring yourself go to work another morning, and be subservient to one who performed this act of betrayal.. so where do you go.. you have no savings, to speak of.. and the world is full of "devils" waiting to jump you when you walk off grounds.. you leave, and your wife stays behind. The "boss" makes sure of that.. you walk off the grounds, without the wife, without friends, no income, no trust in other human beings, and no God.. you tell me. this guy lost his life over it.. I've had to look at darkness straight in the face.. maybe not to this degree.

ever stop for a moment and think that perhaps.. what happened to other people FELT the same to them? :)