Ham

They haven't denied it, have they? "I'm sowy mah people's.. we was scum sucking enablers and participants in vic and loy's schemes. We PWOMISE to nevah do it again.." how modern day do you need to get say, from 1999 or 2000? when was loy finally ousted? Did they run those who were complicit out of town on a rail? Doubt it. They ran the scumbuckets classes for how long? Last I heard, they still hold on to the names he gave the new classes. I would call it guilt.. by lack of dissasociation.

If you read the above earlier, you may want to read the final edited form

Lessee. the local radio club? Nope.. that never fit the above description.. the Methodist church I attended as a youth? Naw.. Boy scout troup? Nope.. umm.. in fact, the kind of activities documented in the lives of the higher ups in der vey were never even ALLEGED in these little groups I refer to.. even twenty, thirty years later. I don't know how one can excuse acts of barbarity with other acts of barbarity. The only difference with der vey.. it is still a young, power, money, and blood hungry little cult. Compared to other religions, that is.. "what about what THEY did over there.." the characterization really cuts both ways Oldies.. comparing the vey to another group at their worst is pretty effective.

I'll nominate Watered Garden's apt description.. I'm still laughing..

guilding a turd.. :biglaugh: thanks..

Maybe that would have solved our little problem here.. let the vicster in a lab.. maybe he could try to make some "soap". "hmm, what's this? I wonder what toluene is.. *huffff, huffff, snifffff*.. sure smells pretty. Well, I've got about a gallon of it.. *hums* *ladee dee, ladee dah..* add about five pounds of glycerine.. ma always said it made soap better.. *la dee dee, la dee da..* *adds a liter of 20 molar sulfuric acid..* *lah dee dee...* *adds a liter of 20 molar nitric acid..* man this stinks.. I wonder if it will smell better if I cook it up on the stove over there.. *brings "soap" to a hard boil.." next morning, Sydney Daily Gazette: "Local dumbass mogster perishes in lab explosion unlike any known since the first century.."

What's interesting.. twi ended up *practically* as bad as the rc's.. maybe they didn't pull off an inquisition, but by self admission "there are those among us who would GLADLY execute you.." if you were alleged to be homosexual, or "unfaithful" "wicked".. if they lived in medievial society, they WOULD, by their own admission.

Just wonder, how long you've been out O, if you don't mind saying. I've been out since about 1996.

Even more objectionable than a snot nosed kid having summary power over people's lives, is a handful of 3/4 through their life geezers with visions of reliving their lost youth with that same power. I find it kind of pathetic.. look guys.. you had your chance once.. I put my time in wayworld too. And today I have little to really show for it. So stinking what.. is that too much darkness to face? --------------------------------- But what's the point of HAVING the power of summary judgement, unless one does not intend to USE IT? What's the justification? You just want it to keep it tucked in your back pocket, in case of an "emergency" or something? Knowing human nature.. I DON'T THINK SO.

At this point, I have real objections to a system with no accountability at the top.. power to pass summary judgement over other people's lives, no matter how "nice a guy" you are, no matter how "honorable" the motive may be. ESPECIALLY a twenty some year old snot-nosed kid.. LITTLE real life experience..

When I ask "where are the checks and balances".. "where are the safeguards".. I really DO have a good, logical reason..

The real problem I have with this is.. how many other people were there in the room at the time? I'm not blaming them, but I find it VERY disturbing that a coupla hundred people were either intimidated into silence, or somehow convinced that this was some kind of godly action for a supposed LEADER to take. I think a lot knew.. anyone who spoke up, loy would have his thugs run them off the property with barely the clothes on their back.. yep. Let's bring those days back..

Another evaluation from WordsandWorks on an old thread.. Umm.. this was in the "good old days" of "doc"'s reign.. part of the corps "experience".. and to think that I or anyone else was conned to think sponsoring people into that boiling pot of human flesh was actually the godly thing to do..

Here's a review from Rascal on another thread. She debates the fact whether the founder of the "parent" lookalike organization was even a Christian: I think the situation here is a lot like a producers trying to resurrect a bad play on Broadway. The producers very well may name the newspaper who hosted the original show's critic's reviews a "vomitorium" as well. go ahead.. blood isn't on MY hands.

I may not go to your church anymore, but when I ask for a few details, I DO personally have a few good reasons.. :)

I wonder if they will get evaluations like this in twenty five years..

This reminds me of the scene at a house fire. "fellas, forget the kids, the wife, the pets, save the snake oil.. HURRRRRY.." :)

I thought about it for over twenty years. Always striving for one more ounce of "mastery" of the materials, the classes.. "it's GOTTA be in there SOMEWHERE". Watching "the adversary's tricks" lest I should think vic's oil to be that of snake.. We even had little coordinator meetings trying to analyze where people "must be missing it".. after all, it supposedly worked for the vicster. Supposed to be easy as "falling off a log backwards". I honestly think some of us were kicked out of twi because we were just an embarrassment. Some of us really BELIEVED it would work, using the same futile methods over, and over, and over.. it's bad advertising, ya know. Can't have sickness, weakness, or lack of "results" in da promised land. It damages the goods in the public eye. They need someone young, healthy, employed, and with a full set of teeth. So where's the payoff? Now, maybe YOU saw the miraculous, the dead raised, healings.. money rain from heaven.. like the "teacher" PROMISED.. but, I didn't. Over twenty years of futile effort, probably close to $75,000 or more in abs. Probably several years of time in volunteered labor. And at the end.. practically nothing to show for it. In a dead end job, going back to school in hopes of fulfilling my original life's dream. Don't think I'm moaning and complaining.. I can just take an honest look at it. That's pretty much what people are asking others to forgive for. I honestly can't demand that of anyone.

Mike, don't take this wrong.. I'm not being malevolent or anything.. but what if in a moment of time, you found everything you thought you believed, or rather, everything you conditioned yourself to believe to be wrong..

Mike, was it raining in your living room?

and maybe it's just a place for some to decompress..

I'll volunteer. "O, heya hoya, hmm ho hey ho.." don't knock it. It's the closest thing I'll do that resembles speaking in tongues anymore..

my meeting with the counsellor guy.. I just couldn't come up with something else believable at the spur of the moment. Next time I get a question like that, I'll say "how much time do I have for the answer?" I wouldn't rate the twi experience a total loss. I did end up with two kids I wouldn't trade the world for. And they are somewhat smarter than the old man.. what do you think people are doing here, just sitting on their thumbs?

Umm.. I thought that's how it was marketed. So simple a *fool* can't err therein.. easier than falling off a log backwards. vic practically guaranteed answered prayer with his little five step "program". He underscored the word "ANYTHING". Yes.. to receive ANYTHNG from God.. Here's my shopping list.. I want a polo pony, a mercedes.. a fifty million dollar mansion. Energy efficient, I am environmentally consious. a sixty inch new hd tv and computer in every room.. fifty acres of land, fenced in so my cats can run free.. I can get my "needs and wants" at the proper balance if need be. So what's da big deal? See.. I didn't say "anything", vic did. Then we get what is supposed to be the "real deal".. "be thankful if you have a healty body, sound mind, food and clothes on your back.. kinda like.. "go away kid.. don't bother me. We'll never admit the scam doesn't really work.."

The version I heard was that Grahm spoke in tongues. Whether the vicster had anything to do with it, I can't remember that much of the "stowrie". Apparently, Grahm "copped out". Otherwise, he'd be on the main stage with herr vicmeister.. maybe someone can remember this better than I. Undocumented as far as I can tell. It was from an ancient manuscript. It slithered down the mountain one day. "first, thou mustest collect the skins of several hundred snakes.."