Ham

"being the man I knew (in my case know) to be" some of us who have abandoned playing some religous shell game, picked up some real life skills and spirituality are doing just that..

I would rephrase that.. "the greatest learning in forgiving is learning to have the CHARACTER needed not to give someone an excuse not to forgive.." Other words.. don't be a stumbling block. Wanna be a supposed "manogawd"? Keep your hands and privates where they belong.. not matter WHAT. NEVER shake down your congregation for even a tithe.. Don't SELL your rituals.. or religion.. they will turn into snake oil if you do..

Actually, they didn't. Look at Uriah's father in law. He wanted david under the path of a steam roller.. along with not more than a few other relatives.. David made it by the skin of his teeth.. and maybe a TAD of grace. these other overbearing, overdemanding religious con men.. they probably survive only with dumb luck..

Probably the same thing happens even in times of peace. Con, lie to, steal from underlings, "fraternize" with enough of their wives, a general just MIGHT find himself face down in the same predicament.. and all the staffers likely would have an alibi at the time of his not-so glorious "departure"..

well, I hear that if mr "big shot" costs them enough lives and resources, he ends face down in a latrine somewhere.. it's called an old fashioned "fragging".

Some people around here.. one finds it hard debating with them that twi sold snake oil. "of course they didn't sell it. they just accepted *donations*.."

Rascal.. it seems some among us just are intent upon getting kicked again, and again, and again.. some would even go back to see how well they've padded the horses hooves..

What I'd like to know.. was this little road trip before, or after herr doctor bought his doctorate. Anybody know?

I thought they were beating pillows and crying "mommy" practically from day one..

I dunno. Considering the momentus fiasco, prophecy battles and sue me sue you blues they've gone through, I'd say whatever they got from it didn't amount to a hill of beans.. It just seems to me the endorsement from one madman conferred upon another can't really be considered "valid" or anything..

Then there's another "non-denominational" church.. run by a lying, womanizing, weasel. Calls himself a "preacher of righteousness". Screams at the congregation that if they'd give more, gawd would do something.. same kinda authoritarian setup. I don't think he can get voted out. it's a close second to twi.

They did it KNOWINGLY. They KNEW what he did.. rosie admitted under oath. Rascal, maybe that partly answers your question. Is twi worse? One of the local mainstream churches here, around the time loy was handled with kid gloves, they found out, and verified that their minister was a cheating, womanizing weasel. Hmm.. what to do? Give him a little research position at the home office? Cover, hide and spin, and hope the abs doesn't walk out the door? The guy was VERY charismatic. Unlike big forehead, VERY intelligent. Had a big degree, had supporters on the board who really like him, and his charming personality. All that didn't make any difference, they canned his sorry rear. I think he lost everything, pension and all. twi, on the other hand, can't get a grip on who the REAL enemy is.. not the devil, not unproductive followers, or "evil" greasespotters.. It's themselves.

They put the screaming, adulterous, womanizing, abuser of staffer's wives, not to mention what it must have done to the husbands, lying, cheating weasel in charge of RESEARCH? and only cut him loose, when the lawyers could offer no better options? In my opinion, they are filthy by failing to really dissasociate themselves from him. They are rolling in filth.

They haven't denied it, have they? "I'm sowy mah people's.. we was scum sucking enablers and participants in vic and loy's schemes. We PWOMISE to nevah do it again.." how modern day do you need to get say, from 1999 or 2000? when was loy finally ousted? Did they run those who were complicit out of town on a rail? Doubt it. They ran the scumbuckets classes for how long? Last I heard, they still hold on to the names he gave the new classes. I would call it guilt.. by lack of dissasociation.

If you read the above earlier, you may want to read the final edited form

Lessee. the local radio club? Nope.. that never fit the above description.. the Methodist church I attended as a youth? Naw.. Boy scout troup? Nope.. umm.. in fact, the kind of activities documented in the lives of the higher ups in der vey were never even ALLEGED in these little groups I refer to.. even twenty, thirty years later. I don't know how one can excuse acts of barbarity with other acts of barbarity. The only difference with der vey.. it is still a young, power, money, and blood hungry little cult. Compared to other religions, that is.. "what about what THEY did over there.." the characterization really cuts both ways Oldies.. comparing the vey to another group at their worst is pretty effective.

I'll nominate Watered Garden's apt description.. I'm still laughing..

guilding a turd.. :biglaugh: thanks..

Maybe that would have solved our little problem here.. let the vicster in a lab.. maybe he could try to make some "soap". "hmm, what's this? I wonder what toluene is.. *huffff, huffff, snifffff*.. sure smells pretty. Well, I've got about a gallon of it.. *hums* *ladee dee, ladee dah..* add about five pounds of glycerine.. ma always said it made soap better.. *la dee dee, la dee da..* *adds a liter of 20 molar sulfuric acid..* *lah dee dee...* *adds a liter of 20 molar nitric acid..* man this stinks.. I wonder if it will smell better if I cook it up on the stove over there.. *brings "soap" to a hard boil.." next morning, Sydney Daily Gazette: "Local dumbass mogster perishes in lab explosion unlike any known since the first century.."

What's interesting.. twi ended up *practically* as bad as the rc's.. maybe they didn't pull off an inquisition, but by self admission "there are those among us who would GLADLY execute you.." if you were alleged to be homosexual, or "unfaithful" "wicked".. if they lived in medievial society, they WOULD, by their own admission.

Just wonder, how long you've been out O, if you don't mind saying. I've been out since about 1996.

Even more objectionable than a snot nosed kid having summary power over people's lives, is a handful of 3/4 through their life geezers with visions of reliving their lost youth with that same power. I find it kind of pathetic.. look guys.. you had your chance once.. I put my time in wayworld too. And today I have little to really show for it. So stinking what.. is that too much darkness to face? --------------------------------- But what's the point of HAVING the power of summary judgement, unless one does not intend to USE IT? What's the justification? You just want it to keep it tucked in your back pocket, in case of an "emergency" or something? Knowing human nature.. I DON'T THINK SO.

At this point, I have real objections to a system with no accountability at the top.. power to pass summary judgement over other people's lives, no matter how "nice a guy" you are, no matter how "honorable" the motive may be. ESPECIALLY a twenty some year old snot-nosed kid.. LITTLE real life experience..

When I ask "where are the checks and balances".. "where are the safeguards".. I really DO have a good, logical reason..

The real problem I have with this is.. how many other people were there in the room at the time? I'm not blaming them, but I find it VERY disturbing that a coupla hundred people were either intimidated into silence, or somehow convinced that this was some kind of godly action for a supposed LEADER to take. I think a lot knew.. anyone who spoke up, loy would have his thugs run them off the property with barely the clothes on their back.. yep. Let's bring those days back..