Ham

I suggest the stated intent was flawed to begin with. I think they are starting on the same foot. How can it then be any different? A lot of the programs were slipshod nonsense to begin with.. Before the big bait and switch, the corpse was supposed to somehow produce MINISTRIES. It was like a fraternity- live through the hazing, stick it out.. and you're in the "in" crowd.. Some good people came out of it, but what did the corps REALLY produce? I saw several otherwise normal human beings turned into bitter, arrogant mog wanabes who thought they could spot spirits under a rock at forty paces. Thought they knew the bible better than the rest of the civilized world. Some I knew came out feeling ENTITLED to sit as leadership, or judge.. and you'd BETTER listen.. Some brought the same kind of harshness, bullying and hazing they were exposed to to the people on the field who supported them. I think it was momentus, on steroids. It's the same old slip-shod operation. "Let's just get things a going, then we'll figure stuff out.." What happened to the "more abundant life being in the DETAILS"? Too busy for something so trivial I guess..

I think if a *real* spirit sat up and said "boo".. they'd end up in the emergency room somewhere.

I wonder if they feel "entitled" to give others the same treatment they got..

I would agree.. if the kids could actually have part of and ownership in the "community". As it stands, the old faarts can boss them around, and if they buck against the insanity, send them packing any time they want. Where is the community in THAT? I was promised that headquarters would always be "home" of sorts for me. Nowadays, for me to "go home" would be akin to trying to break INTO a medium security prison.. The kids would be better off in a commune.. in my opinion. Or go for a little trip on the magic bus..

Any update Twinky? Just wonder how the little rascal is doing..

I'd rather go on some kind of journey in life.. why sit around sucking one's thumb, constantly assessing if everything lines up with vic's way of thought..

Only three votes? maybe this is just too crazy..

kinda looks like a dog chasing it's own tail, does it? I can understand why they do it. It's "security".. like an old worn blanket, that a toddler has bonded to, and refuses to relinquish.. you may point out the many holes, molded food, and gaping errors to the toddler, but it makes no difference. It's... "blankie".. fifty five year old toddlers can appear rather disgusting.. I think it might take practically a miracle for them to break free.

Yep.. and supposedly to be administered or coordinated by a "young man" who barely past the stage of growing peach fuzz. What are they thinking? What if a volunteer gets hurt? They really don't have the resources to steamroll them like they did in twi. Even a fifty page itemized signed hold harmless agreement won't save them, if proven negligent. From what I see, they have: NO professionally trained staff not even someone who can render first aid.. no one trained as to know psychologically what they are doing to the recruits.. Not a SINGLE person on staff with a master's degree, in ANYTHING.. Only one with a bachellor's that I am aware of.. NO oversight. Zero accountability. I guess... well "they" say, "work will set you free".. I think if successful, they'll run cff into the ground.. if that's where the "leaders and workers" will be "sent".

I think I've got all of the possibilities covered..

I wonder how many here have been on the "wrong end" of a supposed exorcism.. you know.. the other person flailing their hands, invoking the name of the lord.. only that.. well, sorry.. there's no daimon here.. discerning of spirits? Ha.

Yep, that's the one! Hey, at least they had fun in their old rusty bus.. err, most of them... umm, the ones that didn't end up in a county mental ward somewhere or something.. well, who's to say they didn't have fun too..

Shroyer did say he had a few "issues" with "doc" over "putting teeth (and "accountability") in da love of gawd.."I can almost hear him rolling over in his grave a whole state away. when it doesn't "work", I think they'll turn rather abusive.. I don't think JP is a naive as he lets on.

Naw, couldn't be. Just too plain simple.. Why is it easier for some to believe the incredible.. Ya know, if gawd actually dictated plaf to him like some would have us think.. then aren't they making gawd out as a plagiarist? The last time I read the bible, I noticed even God himself cited his sources..

What's even more creepy.. there are people who still have little meetings behind closed doors in smoke filled rooms, eating pickled pigs feet, busy figuring out how to carry out the master plan of "mein fuhrer".. in a way. That's the mind picture I have of some offshoots. I think some have sacrificed their life, libery and conscience to the degree that they can't even consider that the vicster could have possibly been just plane WRONG. That's not even an option. I don't think they could come to terms with the kinds of "works" they performed in the mogster's behalf.

This is a rather famous bus. The Smithsonian actually wanted to induct it..

That rusty old truck doesn't have anything on this beastie:

I emailed him. Really. I said the above quote except in nicer terms. My take on it- he's not REALLY aware of the abuse in the system they're trying to resurrect.. or even of the potential for abuse. The over the hillers around him are above recrimination, "honorable" counsellors, one and all.. There is no qualified staff there that I can tell. I couldn't even guarantee that any of them know first aid. I feel in my spirit that at least one "staffer" REALLY has more than a potential for abusing his authority in the situation. Add to this, the claim UP FRONT is that an enrollee may be summarily dismissed by staff, and sent home at any time.. It's VERY troubling, to me. So they'll make these kids run the gauntlet, work their rearsies off.. and at the end have a piece of paper they'll despise in thirty years.. that MAY open the doors to a "career" flipping burgers somewhere.. though it may very well be some kinda soy product..

Happy Birthday friend! Hope you enjoy your day..

And that's what I think the "just get over it" crowd often times does not really get. A person can't exactly tear out the bad, and keep the good. Look at the recent developments.. do they REALLY think they can "get it right" this time? I don't think so.. especially if a few honest questions are met with hostility or putting someone on just plain ignore. Sometimes I think part of the next stage of development involves seeing the last one for what it really was..

looks like a bunch of spiritually unemployed or bankrupt "rowdies" may have picked up his banner..

It makes me wonder if they have anything better to do with their time.. why not get a hobby.. Where's the "need" for this kind of thing anyway? Doesn't cff already have some kind of leadership training deal? I wonder if that won't mean a hill of beans now.

I wonder how many of the "board" are technically unemployed at the moment.. it's just a thought.

Yep. I'm suprised you didn't see this.. Squirrel ranting on page after page

Bliss, what was your first impression of his little internet site? Mine was.. "sheesh, he's looking for volunteers to chop and stack his fire wood, fix the farm equipment, herd and slaughter his farm animals.. build the farm.. and at the end of the day, listen to old tapes of V1P1 teaching Thessalonians or something." I originally thought it was a joke. No, he says it's no joke.. just him and a bunch of pathetic well past middle aged men, trying to forge yet another "exclusive" authoritarian offshoot in old "doc" vic's name..