Ham

and some of those who did, and want to continue his legacy seem to exhibit selective amnesia..

From the LITTLE "they" have chosen to share: the "kid" values cff movers and shakers as counsellors.. thinks pfal is his heritage of sorts. there is NO real trained or qualified staff.. experiences as a "fellow laborer" are "surely enough, aren't they?' dad's on board.. another poster inadvertantly leaked that it's really McM*ILen's project.. when I got to asking about safeguards and oversight.. that's when communications stopped. Or were cut off. The only thing I can think.. they probably figure I wouldn't like the answers I'd get.. I gave him/them several weeks for a reply before coming here with it..

I heard of one study once.. somebody claimed that the global average temperature would directly affect the number of lightning strikes. They even put together something to count the lightning strikes. Never heard much after.. I always wondered what the results were.

sometimes I can almost hear what some people are thinking.. about five minutes after I started this, I could almost swear I distinctly heard "you sarcastic son of a *%$^@.."

I dunno. I think it was still as warped thinking, just perhaps we didn't know better. It's called.. young and dumb. Were we storing up treasures for all eternity? Now I doubt it.. somehow I don't think "eternity" will start with an interview with the lord.." lord, lord, I sat through seventy pfal classes, assisted in twenty, ran the tapes in forty, served the refreshments.." I run into the same thing today. "Whadya need a degree for, when you can have the WORD?" "What makes that SO IMPORTANT?" my answer: "tough *%".. go get your own life.." I heard a local "preacher" say something like.. "don't you dare think a SECULAR calling is any less of the lord.." I think we were conned into a pyramid scheme, where those in top couldn't sell a free meal to a hobo.. they just needed to find enough stooges to do all the work..

It's the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment.

Wanted: Low maintence sheep. Come join us at our unique opportunity to learn how to REALLY give of yourself. Among the select few, you will learn to chop and stack firewood for cooking, clear land of stumps and such, and move large rocks, and prepare the finest mutton this side of heaven. Please, space is limited. Only the best (and tastiest) need apply. Come, break through your limited barriers, and learn how to make yourself meat (ahem, meet..) to serve at the masters' table.

And I think that says a lot of what these "leaders" think of "gawd's people".. sheep to be coralled in.. there are some comparisons with people I suppose. But as it goes, the ordinary sheep are kind of clueless.. have no idea of who the enemy really is.. they need protection, feeding.. they really weren't made to win a real fight with anything.. on the same notion, sheep aren't exactly suited to clearing large stumps with pickaxes, moving large stones, chopping and stacking firewood.. learning how to butcher and prepare mutton.. and when unable to bear up under the tasks given them by the "masters" of the camp who couldn't bear them themselves, I haven't heard of sheep given the ultimatum by a shepherd: "tow the line, or we'll cancel on you and send you home.." Maybe they are looking for "super sheep"..

The whole concept seems sooooo bizarre to me. So you go to "way university".. and you can't really "graduate". Besides, the piece of paper one walked out with entitled one to a grand total of nothing. To maintain "nothing", one must constantly have to jump through hoops, continually go back for classes, seminars, corpses nights, etc., etc... and for what? The "real world" equivalent of it would be if upon supposedly graduating, I'd STILL have to go back for three seminars a year to maintain my bachellor's. way university was the first I ever heard of forcing a "professor" to clean up oil spots in the parking lot as part of his duties.. even going as far as calling him to ream him a new one because he "spiritually" missed a few that morning. I think for all of this to look "normal".. you need the right kind of glasses..

The university doesn't keep a list either. You know, active graduates and students, inactive graduates and students, dropped from active students roster, "disgruntled" students and graduates to abandon and avoid.. They keep just enough records that they may supply a transcript if requested. I never heard any professor threaten disaster or dire consequences if one chooses to leave.. I didn't have to write a "birth to da college" paper, either, for some slimebucket to look over and see if *it* could gain sexual favors with me.. generally speaking, the staff isn't paid on "need basis". Don't have to submit a budget to their superiors, sign in and out on potty breaks.. one thing I can say: twi and the clones make the "world" look REALLY GOOD.. give me debils behind any given tree anytime. I have NEVER seen a professor sign an oath of eternal loyalty to the president of the university, either. A contract perhaps, detailing length of employment and agreed on compensation and benefits.

I have NEVER seen an instructor scream at a student. Not once. You'd think if anyone was "qualified" to do so, it would be someone with real credentials.. over three years into the curriculum, I don't see the bait and switch.. "now, students.. it's no longer a four year commitment.. you've REALLY signed on to a lifetime of university service.." what would I do? Well, probably what most people would: presuming there were real benefits to finishing the last semester, just keep quiet and go through it, and get the hell out as soon as I could.. Actually, an HONEST, ACCREDITED college can't indiscriminately change the curriculum I signed on for. They can't add half a dozen classes they think I might need as a requirement for the degree along the way.. A professor might SUGGEST them.. I've heard one say "ya know, you might be a little more employable if you took a few computer classes.." Neither can an HONEST, ACCREDITED place just say, "come on in, we'll figure out the curriculum as we go along.." "we'll start with stump-pulling 101"

Neither do they "train" people how to run little meetings.. go "witnessing" at large for the university.. or run classes, keep track of who's returning fifteen percent of their income to the university, who's really winning new students for the organization. No weekly or even daily meetings to "follow up" on those they've "witnessed to".. twi, along with it's clones, are like a "university" on the planet Bizarro..

You guys PAID (or someone for you) for the "training" true? reminds me of the centurion guy.. "with lotsa simoleons I purchased this FREEDOM" How warped can it get. a person scrapes up enough cash, invests four years of their time, money, time off from developing real careers, not for freedom, but servitude? When I signed up in the four year university here.. I didn't sign on for a lifetime of university "service". I don't get annual evaluations. I do get semi-annual assessments though (grades), and those will end when I leave the establishment, in good standing or not. The only real "standard" I've heard "harped on" is HONESTY. Academic honesty.. don't cheat, don't plagiarize. That's the only REAL one way ticket out of the establishment. The only other reason they MIGHT "send them home" is if the person PERSISTS in substance abuse problems, ON CAMPUS. In both cases, one has an appeal process they may wish to go through. When I finally leave the place in good standing (graduate) I don't anticipate getting yearly assignments or evaluations from the board of the college.. unless I just happen to be EMPLOYED there..and, the percentage of the graduating class "moving up" to a position at the university is practically zero. They actually WANT people to go. Just go away.. Come back with a doctorate in math or chemistry or something someday if you'd like. The staff might actually like one's charming personality.. but they really DON'T want people who graduated with a degree in chemistry, math, physics, education- to hang around to kiss their rears, chop firewood, clean windows, sweep floors.. herd their farm animals, fix their rusty trucks, clear their land of trees and old stumps and rocks, listen to tapes of old lectures, clean oil spill marks in the parking lot on the way to the "office".. in fact, they don't want STUDENTS, even HONORS students to perform the above "service". I have yet to hear a speech from an instructor challenging the senior class of students to be among the first for an individual to donate a million bucks to the university.

Yes men, in search of a cause..

you know what they say. Grace (stupidity) covers (up and sweeps under the carpet) a multitude of sins.. How do you like that for an ultra expanded literal according to usage? "honorable" counsellors they are, one and all..

What I wonder with v2p2's "corpse, the next generation".. is if the "lucky" few graduate into a lifetime, not of christian service, but christian servitude. No real job skills except for perhaps they know how to go door to door witnessing.. run classes, meetings of sorts.. probably know how to clear land of tree roots and such with little more than pickaxes.. forced to live on the alms of others.. Where do they plan on taking this "learning".. into business, into culture?

doggone double posts..

maybe they feel like moses taking the elders up the mount to see gawd.. about the only options I see, either it's sinister as hell, or they're *just* having delusions of grandeur.. the real situation probably lies somewhere in between.. anyway.. I don't think mr "history" learned much from history. Look what momentus did to ces. It was an "extreme" (but far shorter) adventure, designed for the "elite", those who could supposedly "handle it".. there were other factors, sure- but the resulting elitism, arrogance and harshness consumed their organization, from the inside out. It was no more than a weekend or so of intense hazing. It's an evil, wicked leaven.. give it enough time, and unchecked, it consumes whole organizations. look at what the legalism, harshness, and arrogance engendered in the corps program did for der vey. loy succeeded in REALLY training goons to bring the harshness that was primarily reserved before for those in "training" to those on the outside.

I asked at least. Maybe he just didn't like the tone of my voice.. "honestly, your website looks like you are looking for volunteers to cut and stack your firewood, herd your animals.. build the farm.. ya know, this was done once before under much of the same kick their a** and send them home if they won't put up with your .... ethics of the old ministry.. what makes YOU different?""is it going to be the same slip-shod kind of program that put God's people in harms way?" "what kind of safeguards have you put in place?" "who's staff, and what are their qualifications?" No real answers other than something like "an elder oughtena not act that way.." my answer: "These are not accusations, they are my impressions. That's why I'm asking YOU about it FIRST, bubba.." now, all I hear is static.. I think there is *something* larger connected to it, which chooses to carefully remain hidden.

I am quite aware of this. That's one point where they REALLY lost me a few years ago.. the "chief speaker" at his discerning of spirits class gave such honor to the "teacher" who made it all possible.. and he was supposed to be a real spiritual guy.. With almost glazed over eyes: "I'm thankful to the MAN of GAWD who revealed these truths to us.." I almost gagged.. I thought.. sheesh, you're supposed to have some kind of connection, and you don't seem to know ANYTHING about the man you're giving this kind of honor? I knew better at the time than bringing any of the facts up.. they probably would have imagined they found a half a dozen or so spirits they were talking about to practice with.. The other occurence was just a regular "twig" of sorts.. the teacher chose the "importance of controlling one's mind".. ranted on about the evils of liberal politics.. more than suggesting that they were spiritually compromised.. and to follow such a belief may very well open one to spirits of homosexuality.. no joke. The real scary thing.. all the others in the room were bobbing their heads up and down in agreement. That was it for me.. I haven't been back since.

Bow, it's really funny, but I'm afraid to enter any comments

actually, in my most fanatical days, I didn't see it. The "world" maybe disregarded, made a LITTLE light of it, or simply were annoyed by my persistance, but no, they never tried to get the government to run a steamroller over me on main street. Nor did they try to offer me a $120,000/year cushy job at the local chemical company if I'd supposedly keep my mouth shut.. Persecution can and does happen, I'm sure. But I think this little teaching did little more than get us to circle our wagons closer around the vicster's campfire.. it's like.. "and class, remember this.. the first thing you may hear from those outside da walls.. "you're NUTS"...don't believe them.."

It almost reminds me of the Mark Twain story of Tom Sawyer, conning the kids on the block to whitewash the fence.. and pay to do so as well..

Just a little side thought: isn't it at least intriguing that the mention of something that sounds like an std, and certain "menogawd".. and someone can almost reasonably come to the conclusion based on "I knew da man.. doesn't suprise me a bit.."

Then there's always the "benefits" of being on a self-appointed "board', along with all of the 501C advantages..