Ham

I can almost hear their mental response to inquiry.. I would have asked it a long time ago as well, I'm sure. "what are YOU doing to move *da word*?" my response: "what the h*ll are YOU doing?" If someone thinks that to assemble a bunch of naive, fawning followers to chop their firewood, butcher their chickens, clean up their farm.. undergo an almost full year of hazing.. in exchange of the "privilge" to hear ole vic's offpring spout vic's material.. or god forbid, sit for hours and listen to bootleg tapes.. to be "moving da word".. they are.. for a lack of better description, in my opinion, NUTS.

It's refreshing to see yet one more person ask that question.. I saw one of them, a former staffer in twi, after being out for several years, abandon a REAL God given gift and profession, to go back on staff in an offshoot. gone.. from making a difference in the "real world".. back to "almost way world".. kinda gave me a sick feeling deep down inside. Then there's the new "survivor, vey corpse II" series. When I asked them what their qualifications I basically had the door slam in my face. I'd be suprised if any of them have even have Red Cross first aid training..

who wilfully separated themselves, and gave themselves over to perversion? I'd say those who stayed behind in a ruin of a "ministry".. and ran off anyone who wouldn't go along with it.. labelling them possesed or worse, raising SUSPICION about their character..Then there was the twisting of basic sound doctrine.. twisting plain warnings about adultery into a vague reference in the bible to worshipping other gods.. the scumbuckets stayed alright.. right where the cash flow was at the time.. Who separated themselves? Stayed around for twenty more years, distancing themselves from the "body" even more, year after year.. hiding out in a wooden "palace".. pretending to be, what they were not.. Who had a ruined conscience, as to think the staffer's wives OWED them a roll in the hay? You tell me. "from such turn away.." the goons just happened to own the key to the joint.. look where they are today.. their idea of "outreach" is to make a phone call to the lawyers..

really? it's been a walk of deception, for a long, long time.. what would you do, if you woke up one morning, and came to the realizaton that everything that you thought you believed was just plain wrong..

what about Ra*ph d's contribution in the book? something about the thirteen step downward in the "christian church".. culminating in "from such turn away.." I wonder who was the REAL subject, there.. interesting that one contribution there was.. appropriate. :)

Maybe, because it is relevant? and, maybe because there hasn't been exactly such an open public forum as gsc? what I see in all of this.. perhaps, just perhaps.. maybe the "good Shepherd" wants to lead us from a bunch of religious "hooey" into real callings and professions that he wanted us in for far too long. maybe he doesn't LIKE us meandering through life, playing the "God game.." I really loved his (paraphrased) statement to ces.. "well, fellas.. I'm off to get a life, somewhere, somehow.." something legitimate.. I've felt the same way. I can't pretend to be what I am not. There are STILL people with der vey mindset.. "whadya need a college education for, for christ's sake.. you could be out witnessing, doing miracles(?), doing the work of THE LORD.." I performed a "reverse" "reem job" on somebody who tried that on me.. relevant? You bet..

I'd like to know how he feels about that issue today.. I'd give him that much benefit of the doubt. If I understand it correctly, some people were practically to the point of jumping off bridges, in despair over losing "da word as it hasn't (supposedly) been known since the first century".. I think others were just far too invested in that nonsense. Where else is a gun-toting goon turned bus driver and keeper of da mog's secrets gonna find respect, adulation or even honest employment to begin with..

what I'd like to know what Walter says though.. what do you think about your way experience.. It's obvious you had a few brains.. you could have learned koine greek anywhere in the world.. do you now think there would have been at least a little benefit to going to a seminary somewhere, and gotten the whole package? with passing of the poop and "revelations" of der supposed manogawd's behavior, are there any regrets? or were you in shock, just couldn't come to grips.. like a lot of other people at the time? what did you ever do with your degree in math? :)

It's almost like a group of "psychologically deficient" individuals who want to open a "spa".. Personally, I may have a *mild* case of it.. and even with that, I wouldn't trust myself to run something like that..

I'd imagine der vey instituted a few more draconian methods to keep ANYTHING out of the hands of outsiders. Probably little written communication. No more letters sent out detailing who's been dropped because of suspected homosexuality, or being unproductive.. No more lists sent out, of who's active, dropped, abandoned.. Can't even find a listing on their website about who staff is- region, limb, branch coordinators.

makes me wonder. Then the whole idea of "well, they don't talk about that anymore. Too negative, they just want to get on with life and *da word*.." doesn't hold water, in my opinion. I think If they REALLY REALLY just "moved on.." They'd be connected, at least casually, in society.. They'd go for real education and credentials, build something really substantial, instead of building on another man's ruins, or illusion. I wasn't as involved in the way as most of these folks, but when I left, reconnecting with family, society, pursuing a legitimate degree and career, was hard work. And I'm nowhere near a hundred percent yet. I may never be. Maybe it's just too hard for a lot of them.. There aren't very many corners in the world where one can demand respect, because one's ancestor was the leader of a little known odd religious group.

I wonder how many staffers hold to vic's doctrine, or held to it at one time, that sex is no different than putting a finger in one's ear.. or that cancer is a devil spirit.. or still believe that the vicster saved us from communist takeover in 76, then saved us again in 79.. It's really an honest question. "Are these people fruitcakes?" Only think I can think.. people that went through that sausage mill, and consider the corps experience a huge success, such that it should be duplicated.. I question whether they came out of it with all of their marbles.. especially if they were involved in the 86 and on fiasco. I wonder if they kept their old corps nametags to display in front of the fawning new followers..

I really think they should add the podcast with one of the former trunk coordinators here to the curriculum.. required for those who run it, and those who volunteer.. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...stees-1987.html go ahead fellas.. click on the link, you won't get possessed or anything.. It's just a little story about a bunch of authoritarian, legalistic, demanding, insane "leadership", who basically ran amok unchecked.. especially so after they ran anybody out who was honest about what was going on. Why, some of them just MIGHT be coming to "instruct" in your little program..

Thanks Ralph.. still, it gave me a sick feeling seeing a closer look at what kind of "ministry" I was actually supporting at the time.. just pass the immodium..

I used to have the book. I think even John Lynn wrote something in the book.. so, it's been what.. over two decades, and where are the writers today? Most of them have passed pretty much into obscurity, W*lter and the Rh*eard's included.. some of them were victims of the momentus and personal prophecy debacle in the church.. the dancing pres was forced to move off to lesser employment.. what happened to Crouch? The supposed expert in figures of speech? It's like.. these were the best twi had to offer, then, or at any subsequent time.. what happened?

corps were required to "retemorize" a bunch of those "literal" and "expanded" thingies, were they not?

Coming face to face with an ordained madman by loy, a limb coordinator and later region coordinator who had a third grade mentality, an apparent maximum of a fourth grade education, some bizarre beliefs about not eating bread and vegetables, so as to avert gastrointestinal disaster, a strange opinion that water could somehow be sparked together so as to make water and energy, delusions of grandeur, megalomania and outright poor judgement, yet ironically, somehow had a quite intelligent "fox" for a wife.. whom I don't have a clue of what she saw in him, nor why she would want to willingly donate to the cause so as he could contribute to the established gene pool.. probably a marriage made by the loyster himself. Or the couple who came before them, who insisted on selling stuff local believers basically gave them, back to the local believers.. I think between those two things, I didn't have much of a problem seeing what what the "ministry" had become. Does that answer your question?

What I'd like to know.. what happened to Walter? His name appears on a google search, about page five or so, and the reference is to here, GSC.. if one keeps going down to about the twentieth or so page.. doesn't say, but he SEEMS to be affiliated with K*n P*tty (not the rocker).. He is a smart guy.. I know he has a degree in mathematics.. taught himself Koine Greek, if I remember correctly. It's almost like he disappeared into obscurity. Who knows.. maybe that's the way he wants it.. my opinion, in his way days, he was a "songbird" ole vic could put on stage. I'm not slighting him. I think his intelligence, voice, and even perhaps genuine care was taken advantage by herr vicmeister. I think he was one of the few, that his education and credentials were in the vicster's hands, and the vicster chose not to entirely crush them. "well, your education is more important. let's just forget about this god biz in this one specific circumstance.." I don't think he had the heart to crack the whip at hq like the vicster.. I remember it getting him into trouble a time or two..

I thought we were supposed to include little illustrations from Shakespeare and Chaucer..

I think the real issue that speaks for itself, is that can reasonable and intelligent folks who practiced these supposed truths can judge for themselves- did it WORK? You know. REAL, TANGIBLE bonifide, verifiable right down where one lives RESULTS? That was what was promised by the way.. No fluff, no pie in the sky when I die.. so you got the front parking spot at wally mart.. "wow.. I'm cookin today.." what about the fifty other times you had to walk from the back lot? I dunno. I think that kind of spirituality is rather shallow and immature. I think it is a brand of spirituality which is most easily practiced when one is lucky enough to be young, healthy, employed, or independantly wealthy..

I can see Juedes point though. If "believing" is so wonderful, what DO you need God for? I mean, well, He has to weigh in every once in a while to supposedly HAVE to energize your believing or something.. but I think the vey turned him into an impersonal, emotionless, holy "spook" who was only a RESOURCE. "God is BOUND to honor his word.." What's He get in return of all of this? Love? Fellowship? The JOY of having a "family"? Oh, I forgot. God is supposed to be spirit. Can't experience joy, love, fellowship, tenderness.. that's only for humans.. The mentality baffles me. It's almost like people think they are in the "God" game, and get dealed a royal flush every hand just because it suits THEM.. So I'll put the burden where I think it really belongs. "Where are the RESULTS?" Go ahead.. operate "the law of believing" with the supposed over 900 promises.. just for altruistic reasons. Let's see the hospitals cleaned out, the slums miraculously rejuvenated, etc. etc.. People play the game, claim they've got the winning hand.. let's see the cards.. :)

Sounds like it's almost time for j.l. to take the show on the road again.. a personal visit and a demonstration of personal prophecy in every "twig" in America..

Yep. His degree was in PRACTICAL theology.. and homiletics if I remember correctly. I think that they were unaware that they were training a monster..

and then, a "translation" or "version" is no better than the opinion, character, qualifications, or theology of the one doing the translating or revision. It might be a real, legitimate degree, but I really don't see how a Master's degree in homiletics qualifies one to be a textual critic, in multiple foreign languages. Add to that the "preclivities" of der manogawd.. along with the driving passion simply to have something "different" or "exclusive" that he would not have to "back up on.." that kinda would wreck one's subjectivity, would it not?

Justa bringing this one back to life for the newer folks around here..