Ham

Wasn't the Van Wert church the one he referenced in der vey living in lust? His side of the story seemed to be that when after his *greatness* left the church, that *they* had a successful work plowed under inside of six months or something.. no mention of his actions or accepting any kind of personal accountability or anything. then we get what I believe to be another display of arrogance.. "looking back, I just know *I* shoulda taken the congregation with me.." Perhaps he was forced to make as a discrete exit as he could. I wonder how many of the old congregation are still alive.. have any of them documented what it was like?

too bad it doesn't ward off a few vampires at GS

I don't think it's really an issue with about being RIGHT, more than an issue of losing an argument..

I'll say this.. I don't have the heart to give om the beating he's getting over in another thread here. It's futile. There will be no change, even with both tits over half-way up a wringer. The exchange is typical. I hear cries of "fowl" and "unfair" and "geeze, this really HURTS.." and he doesn't have a clue why. It's all just another GAME.. why feed it? It's the same old thing.. some of us just LOVED debate in our twi days.. some of us never grew up I guess. some people would sacrifice their own grandmother to get back the good old feelings of twi of yesteryear..

Happy Birthday friend..

I think that's the whole point. It seems to me, that those in charge would appear a lot more innocent of wrong doing if they dealt with these monsters APPROPRIATELY before it is "found out". The laws of probability suggest that it WILL be found out. Sometimes a lot sooner than one would anticipate. loy should have been sent packing.. the FIRST TIME they knew about his predatory nature, abusing his position in the organization That would have been what.. about 1981 or 1982 or therabouts? Maybe even before. They have to put a lot more spin to it after the fact, once it gets out. "Dear beloved in the Lord, it is with much regret we must announce the canning of the loyster. We have irrefutable evidence of his sexual escapades, and to protect the people in this organization, we have removed him from all postions of authority and sent him packing.." or even vic.. the then "trustees" could have voted him off, could they not? the first time he or howie laid a greasy hand on a sister in the organization, they lost it all, to begin with.. the organization is really bankrupt..

never mind.. I found it. :)

I have an older computer at home with win2000 on it. has about 90 meg of memory, so it "thrashes" about quite a bit. What I'd like to do.. put one of my unused cheap 2 gig flash drives on it if I could figure out where the virtual memory settings are, and designate space on the flash drive instead of the hard drive.. I suppose the thrashing would occur so fast I wouldn't even notice it anymore.. and it wouldn't sound so annoying. I understand that the flash drive has at least the reliability of a hard drive, as far as number of read and/or write cycles.

Just bringing this to the top. Really, it's almost painless, as easy as voting..

I sincerely believe those who covered it all up have as much as or even more blood on their hands than the perpetrators.

I remember at a "weekend in der verd".. maybe it was a trick with the lights, but on stage, the vicster looked like he literallly glowed.. is it possible, he could wear a figurative, or even literal suit of "light" when it was convenient? Makes me wonder what kind of entity we really were following..

it was one of the "manifestation" moves. kinda funny looking, kneel down close to sitting position, quiver and shake.. I'd better not speak any more graphically than that. Don't want the moderators to get me in the back room and work me over here..

Maybe I'm just evil today.. I thought you were referring to the little s.i.t. "move".. kinda looked like he was stuck on something..

Oh, you mean the atheletes of da spirit "s.i.t." move? Asherah pole, about four feet tall? :biglaugh: hahhahahahahhaha... *cough, wheeze...*

I think when it goes beyond able to agree to disagree.. especially after years.. something has to give. Some people post things just to get a reaction.. have about as much tact as stopping a funeral procession to argue with the survivors about the cause of death.. it's not meaningful dialogue to begin with. Have to cut your losses somewhere..

Some personality types demand confrontation on one level or another.. why feed it? It was like back in old way days.. we were told the debil would try to thwart our efforts, try to drill holes in our brains with the wrong kind of doctrine and the like. How many here, other than myself thrived on confrontation? I think for some it's not a learned behavior, more like it's wired in.. just a thought.

"How TWIish of you" I don't think so. If somebody came to my door selling what I deemed (in my opinon of course) a toxic brew of leftovers from twi days past.. I'd politely say "go try to sell crazy someplace else".. if they persisted.. I'd shut and lock the door.. same for me I suppose. If I'm driving you nuts.. turn me off. Won't hurt my feelings or anything..

It just seems.. if one views another's opinion as toxic and despicable, and conditions reach an impasse with no hope of any kind of reasonable reconciliation, what other option is there?

I dunno. There's always a solution.. maybe a massive group "ignore" would work..

Bride, now that's just what I needed.. *ah, ooh, a little lower.. no, up a half an inch.. ahhhhhh.."

unfortunately, his true character was rather well hidden. I sincerely believe the few of his yes men who knew, consented, and/or partook, and subsequently covered up, have as much blood on their hands as he did.. if not more. They are like a blight spreading over the land.. what they grow, poisonous and inedible.. makes one want to drop a life, a livelihood and profession, and go join an offshoot, doesn't it? one day I'll tell you how I REALLY feel..

Instead of posting a bunch of stuff and derailing yet another thread, I figured resurrecting this might be a little more appropriate and easier.. If one is on some kind of crusade, or "witnessing" campaign.. who should one choose to exemplify the "benefits" of what one claims- who should be the "poster child"? would one choose: Capone, the model citiizen, and advocate against violent crime, mayhem, and racketeering.. Jeffrey Dahmer, Chef Extraordinaire, and nutrition expert for the advancement of proper diets for all Americans.. then there's the victard.. model "minister" and family man, an example of intellectual honesty, self-control, and sexual morality for menogawd everywhere..

Don't get me entirely wrong though.. I wouldn't dream of arguing with the fact that the sun appears in the morning sky every twenty four hours. It's just, I wouldn't take the vicster's word on it alone, if he rose from the fountain and swore on a stack of bibles or something..

I may have come CLOSE to saying something like this. For my own personal life, I feel vic's sin and recklessness invalidates everything I learned from him in pfal, all the seminars and stuff.. why? If it is sooooo wonderful, how come didn't it have a lick of effectiveness in the moral fabric of the guy who supposedly came up with it? "Conversion" or "new birth" in his own words is supposed to be a life CHANGING experience.. other men have come from corruption, lives of crime.. and claimed "change", and.. LIVED UP TO IT. but vic, was he "illuminated"? I don't think so.. I think he merely found enough light to try to SELL. I honestly don't think he even believed that there really is a God to begin with.. I think his "voice from heaven" and snowy gas pumps story was merely a falsehood and part of the scam.. otherwise, if he REALLY had an experience with the Almighty, he wouldn't lay his filthy hand on one single sister in christ.. not one. I wouldn't believe the claim that the sun is guaranteed to rise every morning based on his word.. I'd have to hear it or experience it somewhere else.

Hmm. I wonder what would happen if OSHA paid them a visit.. plus I wonder about the legality of trade of labor for *free* room and board.. Naw, I wouldn't wish that on them. I may be concerned, but I'm not hateful or vindictive or anything..