Ham

They should have named him(her?) Dr. Strangedog..

At loy boy's advanced class "retake" I remember.. one of the "to bring" items, practically highlighted was a flashlight. During a session while the loyster was present, the lights went out. Quiet panic ensued, while people fumbled in pockets and briefcases for the said items.. the loyster practically alluded to the fact it was proof he had divine "revelation" for it to be on the list.. and I thought.. "sheesh, what a moron.. he just had some lackey throw the switch.. "

well, until they send me a brochure, I can only guess. But I don't think it's that far off the mark.. There's another question for me to ask.. how much sleep time do the "trainees" really get? it's a fair question.. if they are patterned after the corpse program, I would imagine they have far less than eight hours a day, and a lot less food than they'd like.. still waiting for the brochure..

oddly is a good term.. and it seems like the "dream" is foisted upon the younger crowd.. young vicster as well. Why couldn't they just leave the kid alone.. he did manage to graduate with a bachellor's.. and today, that's just a START. Instead of going on, he has to fulfill "his" dream which is named for him.. shame on THEM. What a waste.. the kid is apparently brilliant.. now he's trying to resurrect a defunct cult.. those guys had their shot at the "dream".. why not just let it go.. I wonder how many words of "prophecy" were spoken over the young vicmeister, massaging his ego with promises of "greatness" in da dumb *ministry*.. my dream involves mathematics, chemistry and some physics.. I think it's the greatest.. for ME. One of my kids showed more aptitude in math than I did at her age.. she turned out to be an artist. I don't think a *normal* parent would be disappointed. Not that I claim to be *normal* or anything, but I'm not disappointed.. It would have been rather cruel and controlling to name her "Hamette II, THE mathematician for our day time and hour" upon birth..

The next question.. What have they promised the "participants"? I mean.. close to a year of chopping firewood, de-stumping and de-rocking of farmland, one bizarre "extrememe" activity after another, hours upon hours of old "doc's" materials either played or boringly recited.. the constant reminder that they could be sent away at any given moment.. what's in it for them? God, gold and glory? No *normal* person would subject themselves to this kinda nonsense, just for the fun of it.. and the related question.. can the "organization" live up to the promises it insinuates? It's not the late sixties again.. there isn't a resurgence of "spirituality" that they can take advantage of, like vicster did with the old organization.. I don't think they will see the influx of people that they anticipate. Are they as naive as to think "if we build it, *they* will come.."?

I wonder.. does j.s. STILL call the vicster "doctor"?? I thought he respected academic honesty just a little more than that..

I took her class too. she was already in her fifties (I think) back in the late 1970's.. maybe I'm mistaken..

but what happened to the older crowd? Did the vicster run them off with one bizarro doctrine and conspiracy theory after another? I used to have a little book from the bookstore by Ra*hel W*an.. I think her name was. What happened to her? Then there was R*ss Tr*cey.. an older gentleman, had more than a few legitimate credentials, and experience as well.. where'd he go? Of course Peter W*de was gone in a flash.. right after filming of the *wonder class*.. maybe the vicster needed a few young, hungry for power goon types who would accept the "assignment"..

I think that's the whole point ww. "Junior" on my other thread thinks that it was a wonderous place, that a *few* bad apples ruined for the vicster.. when in reality, it was perhaps hundreds of otherwise well-meaning human beings corrupted by power and position given to them long before it was due.. those elevated to the top were the worst. I don't think ninety five percent of the younger crowd can handle that kind of position and authority without getting really corrupt..

Or keep it afloat long enough to bail out with a new offshoot or something.. God forbid these numbnuts should have to actually WORK for a living.. or actually lift their lazy nose out of a bible or concordance long enough to IMPROVE themselves in some manner, like a college education, investment in some kind of career.. it's too hard. A hard cold world ya know..

Yet, *some* want to resurrect it.. and don't view it as a failure at all.. think it was a *marvelous success*.. life must have been "good" for the alpha male and the consorts in the pack. Get the best sex of your stinking life.. get all the worship and adulation one's heart would ever wish..

Yeah.. "ordinations". I wonder if they'll follow vic's practice.. bind them with a salt covenant to the support the ministry(?) that taught them the word(??).. about all I see in this is yet another retirement "scheme" for a number of over the hill clergy who don't have anywhere else to go..

I dunno.. if one is a good enough cook, it seems the guy doesn't really MIND washing the dishes..

If he came.. I think he would say "life is messy, clean it up" I dunno. There are so few places that would be immaculate enough for twi "standards(?)".. a well kept grave would qualify.. nothing out of place, flowers in the correct position.. maybe a "retirement" home. Nothing to offend, no new life to intrude an otherwise "perfect" existence.. no rock and roll.. sounds like hell.. I think if the Lord is who he is, and who *they* say he is.. he would be so gracious, that one wouldn't even care if they had a sink load of dirty dishes from yesterday.. :)

Hmm. So you lost a lot of your sarcastic sense of humor? I FOUND mine after I left der way.. Sometimes I have a hard time turning it off.. I think perhaps one of the hardest things for me to get over was the illusion of intimacy that der ministry offered as a supposed spiritual family. I think that's what sucked me in to begin with. I just don't think that level of love and commitment is in human nature to begin with.. especially with those not of one's "earthly" familiy.. even some of them leave a lot lacking.

Hmmm. Assignments and ordinations.. I wonder how many twenty-something barely out of high school expert "reverands" they are gonna turn out.. better get the mills tuned up..

In der vey, I think age was a handicap though. As far as ordination was concerned. The only thing I can think, there must have been an exodus of "followers" in the early days. Those who jumped ship when the vicster's product got fruitier and even more fruitier. Usually, only the young and rather inexperienced can be convinced of buying, and selling new fangled ice makers for the eskimo.. I am aware of a group who exited upon publication of JCING. With prior warning. The main guy said something like.. "if you do something this drastic, they are gonna leave by the droves". I think that was the victer's plan. Shake the tree.. those who had any age and experience, common sense.. those who wouldn't "get with it", or didn't like the new product would just leave. then there was Peter W*de.. he left practically right after the filming of pfal I believe. But the hippies started growing up.. loy called the aging crowd of clergy and "leadership" spiritually jaded, compromised. Why? I think a lot of them got some experience along the way.. some of them started growing a conscience. A lot of them couldn't blindly follow insane mandates any longer.. time for a younger crowd again..

"Well, it was a young organization." I disagree. Let's suppose it started in 1942. How many were involved then in the church, or in the radio program? Let's say they were just fifteen or twenty years old.. involved in the "program". by the time we get to 1972 or so, they would be about. fifty years old. What happened to vic's old organization? You'd think he'd have a larger base of more qualified, more experienced individuals to choose from. Instead, he has a mere handful.

Then there was the "hot to trot" twenty-something lady rev here, not married.. out of the corps for maybe a year and a half.. In every way unqualified to "counsel" a family in regards to married life, children, etc.. didn't stop her from offering unsolicited advice. I know of one counselling *session* where she sided with the wife, and hysterically screamed at the man that he was possessed because he would not do EXACTLY as she said.. so young, so inexperienced.. so WRONG. 95 percent of the time. There may have been exceptions, but often I think they ordained young bullies, or young goons.. those who would tow the company line. keep the classes running.. keep the money flowing in.. look good and successful in the public eye.I think Groucho's comment about the money on the other thread is dead on here.

What was the age of these guys? From what I remember, they were pretty young, with few exceptions. I can't think of many, or any other reputable places in the world that a far less than college educated, twenty something year old not even half way around the block sometimes single person would receive this kind of "honor" in any kind of church or organization. What happened to the older crowd who helped support the vicster in the early days? Didn't he have anybody more qualified and experienced around to choose from? I can only think of a few older clergy. M*l Ge*orge, Ge*rge J*ss, a few others. I knew one guy who was just out of the corps here, less than a year. First assignment.. I thought you've gotta be kidding.. what's he done? His dad was rather wealthy. That's the only qualification I can see being fulfilled for ordination. He couldn't really teach well.. wasn't even married.. no kids, no real experience in life. My take on it, he was almost ashamed to let people know he was a rev.

Well.. just suppose he DID get *that* right.. what REAL difference would it make? Honestly. It's only vic's theology that requires the right "dividing" of a FEW biblical "hairs".. How he could demand such accuracy on such an inane or trivial point.. and totally miss the boat on adultery, drugging and such.. which is PLAINLY in violation of what anyone with half a brain or conscience would consider the "will of God"..

Naw.. the wild card. You know, "gawd told ME to do so and so.. forget the insanity of it all.. case closed, thus sayeth da lard." I can hear the wierwillists argument.. "well, gawd told Noah to do some pretty incredible stuff.." well, in vic's case, the rains never came..

Then I wonder how the "board" actually runs. Is it something like the original bot, where two others try to "rein in" the insanity of the third, only to be summarily silenced with the bold proclamation, "thus sayeth the lord"? Must be pretty shrill and intimidating, coming from the voice of a boy who just barely grew past puberty.. does he hold the "magic" wild card? That was part of gramps "legacy" with *his* "men(?)" as well..

I'm suprised they don't just have a bumper sticker, big bold letters: "KICK ME" small letters in the bottom left corner, "copyright, der vey international, 2008".

Being a "24/7" program.. I wonder what the daily schedule is like.. 1. 5 A.M. Morning run. 2. 6 A.M. shower (cold water, on a budget ya know), dress. 3. 6:30 A.M flag raising, followed with prayer and "manifestations". Particular intercession is made for the "trustees' oh, sorry, the "board". 4. 7:30. Consume precisely two and a half cups of boiled millet in the "dining hall". 5. 8-12. Stump pulling in the south pasture today. 6. 12:30-1:30. Consume millet and hot dog sandwiches in the dining hall, while listenening to the mini-mogster expound upon the spiritual significance of current events. 7. 1:45-5 PM. Painting the old barn, more stump pulling, and rock clearing in preparation of planting the new potato crop in the south pasture. 8. 6-7 PM. Potatos, and lentile bean and hotdog sandwiches. Several "voluteers" properly reemed for not stringing the stumps precisely 12.0 inches from each other in the dining and lecture hall. 9. 7-8 P.M. Dinner clean up. The styrofoam cups and plates are carefully washed, and stacked. Unremovable lipstick stains are meticulously scrubbed. 10. 7:30-8:30. "Fun run" with the mini-mog, followed by a lesson in repelling over a cliff. It's AMAZING how he seems to have energy at the end of the afternoon. The mini-mog is impressed- we only lose one participant at the bottom of the chasm this time. 10. 8:30-1AM. Two and a half hours of vic's pfal series, interjected by an hour of analysis by da mini-mogster. Two "participants" harshly reproved for letting debils lull them to sleep during the teaching. Tooth picks to keep eyes open will henceforth be confiscated before class begins. 11. 1:30-3 AM. Sleep. 12. 3-4 AM. Emergency meeting called by the mogster. Prayer and intercession needed. The mogster has inside information that debils in lower Mongolia are planning an attack on the program. 13. 4-5 A.M. Sleep. 14. 5 A.M. Morning run..