Ham

which makes to me, the claims of some in offshoots, that *some* problems are due to debils, which may be *simply* cast out, or removed by ministering, highly suspect. so you "cast out the spirits". Ever think that the victim just went along with the gag? considering.. you've started out with an otherwise normal, healthy individual, somehow convinced them they're loaded to the gills with spirits, uncleanness and compromised thinking.. I think it's anti-psychiatry..

There were a half a dozen legitimate looking businesses with the same address, a restaurant, electronics store, computer place.. but no financial office like you describe. Sounds like a strip mall with a bunch of suites.. *almost* anybody could open a fly by night shop in one of these in certain districts.. they don't appear to have a published phone number either..

for that matter, *we* might be the minority. Even worse, maybe *we* are their some kind of "pet"..

I think maybe the entrance to the advanced class was a threshhold. By that time, they could say practically anything they wanted, and we still stayed.. yeah, I think the *real* programming began at the advanced class.. I remember people coming back from it, far different from what they were before. For some, that's not a compliment..

Then the excuse is often, "look at the apostle paul.. christian killer, etc, etc.." but I think the example deserves to be addressed. Yes, he was plain rabid, going after christian "flesh", and was evil. It took a REAL MIRACLE for him to change.. I think it took a "miracle" to the extent that he COULD NOT REFUSE to change. I mean.. the lord himself appearing, saying in essence, "you're on the wrong team, fella.." what possible reply could one possibly have? "f you.."? then he didn't return to iniquity either.. moving up to 1942.. just SUPPOSE for a moment, that the lord appeared to herr vicster, with an AUDIBLE VOICE. and corroborating mystic snow on the gas pumps.. he would have a choice. either "ok, let's go with it.." or "f you." given that the appearance indeed did occur, every single time he laid a filthy paw on one of our sisters, he would know the reality of the lord being present.. hence, his answer, "f you. I'll do what I damn well please." On the other hand, if the voice, and snow were a product of his imagination, he was *only* a twisted, evil, false prophet.. Rascal, I think this illustrates the difference between just being a "screw up" and "just plain evil". One man could be FORCED to abandon iniquity, the other could not.

I was an angel once.. somewhere between Bluefield and Princeton WV.. circa 1975. It was about a 22 mile walk, I chose to hitchhike. During the first couple of miles, a church bus passed.. I got a ride, and at about the five mile mark, again, the very same church bus passed me by. Then.. I got yet another ride.. at the 12 mile mark, there I was yet again.. the bus passed. immediately after I got yet the last ride.. at the 20 mile mark.. the bus approached.. they stopped.. the guy's face was white.. he says, "are you an angel?" and at the moment, I just couldn't say "yeah, take pfal.."

Happy Birthday friend.

Now, theoretically speaking, suppose one of them sent here got "stuck". Maybe God has a sense of humor or something.. I dunno.. hmm.. possibility there.. maybe they have the capacity for self-loathing..

angels are incarnated as human beings, or at least in their form, supposedly.. the only thing I'll say is, I think I met one, and they were really, really screwed up.. "issues" are an understatement.. that's all anybody will hear, unless the "angel" logs on gsc, and tells the tale.. I met someone here who after hearing some of this, said, "well, it could have been an angel. Some angels have issues they are working through, too.."

I met one once. Had a few "issues" though.. that's all I'll say..

Even ask Geo.. first comes the land.. then the plan, then the building, the myriad of building inspectors, and last but not least, the tax assessors.. It's probably just as true on a cosmic level..

Carl Sagan said something else like.. "if there ISN'T, then it's waste of a LOT of space." It's like.. there is so much room for development, doesn't it make sense.. "if you build it, *they* will come.."?

I had a brief experience that some may interpret as madness.. I was stone, cold sober at the time.. and I spent a couple of years asking anybody who would listen about it.. even an analyst, not on the first visit, mind you.. "they" still let me walk the streets the logical side of my makeup just watched, and all it could do was describe some of the different brain chemicals involved.. kept me going to work, functioning normally in sbociety.. nothing like it has happened before, or since.. it was like LSD times a hundred.. maybe my brain just "burped" for some unknown reason or another.. I think it was all a reaction to what I saw at the time. It was like, a light so bright, it was burning holes in me.. but it wasn't really unpleasant or anything. I think that's when I really abandoned every last vestige of what I thought was the truth as I learned in da way. maybe it was just midlife crisis or something.. The analyst asked a few questions.. it was a time I'd decided to go back to school, really do what I felt I was supposed to do in life.. life in a frenzy like a squirrel with the hectic fall schedule.. I think she ended up being more of a guidance counsellor. time seems so short.. :)

I wonder how many have had what they consider a *real* honest to god, *spiritual* experience.. well, not recreational drug induced, anyway..

I dunno.. which came first, the experience, or the brain chemicals..

I wonder if the mental health providers have ever considered a class action lawsuit against these hacks.. really.. I mean.. who's helping to pick up the pieces after these groups are often done with what initially seemed to be normal, ordinary, healthy people? it's not der vey, except for a couple of court judgments against them for maybe, three individuals..

Just a few observations.. :)

"Borrowed" from DWBH on the TWI vs Therapeutic relationships thread: I think these quotes have some relevance here. What is this new program doing, which is any different? They have about one year "wonder training" to teach the participants how to "run and serve"? They'll come out ot the starting block, ready to discern spirits, cast out debils, in short, practice vic's "psychiatry" that ranged from being detrimental, to ineffective. So they want to try it again.. the sad thing is, they are probably starting with a relatively healthy group of people..

In a weird kinda way.. I felt it was 100 percent bullsheet from day one of my involvement.. the promise of being "family" being only an illusion of sorts.. I think I "went with the flow" so to speak.. path of least resistance, the path that would provide the greatest stability at the time.. does that make sense?

In one of my past lives I think I may have been one of these "skanks".. I think it's partially hidden from me. maybe I had good parents this time around..

and these were a lot of the "counselors" people trusted their lives, family relationships, marriages, child-raising responsibilities, finances and more to.. The thought that I gave any credence to their "professional" opinions and counsel even now makes me sick to my stomach..

the scary thing.. how many of this crowd are off on their own, running a cult, basking in mog worship.. thinking vic's "legacy" to be something to be proud of.. an exclusive heritage. Undoubtedly, some of them were abused as well.. I find it intriguing that many turned to momentus to try to close their wounds.. "kill the victim".. putting their mind on a closed loop of carefully crafted rationalizations..

Why couldn't they just walk away, and let it be.. the older kids were smart. run as fast and as far from new knoxville that one's legs could take them.. Mac probably bought into this nonsense.. well, I wouldn't want to be an enrollee in the program when things go "wrong".. when the little mogster shows he can't live up to being the (grand)son of "gawd"..

took me a minute to get that reference.. heheh. makes me wonder though.. how did that "prophecy" exactly go? That der ministry, or word would live as long as a vierville offspring "stood"? either way, in PRACTICE, it would make those of the *royal* seed a SAVIOR, or SAVIORS, would it not? maybe that's what they mean by "those charged with oversight'.. perhaps they really believe the madman's prophecy. "chosen ones" messiahs all.. In a practical sense, anyway..

I wonder if raising your kid to think he's the messiah could be considered child abuse..