Ham

I always wondered that, too. out of three uncles and my dad, they ALL went in the draft, except for one uncle- he had a severe foot deformity..

Add to all this.. in ww2, he decided he'd be better off at the homefront, instead of going to war against da faderland.. gave some lame excuse like da lord would rather have him back in the good ole usa, where he could preach da word, chase church secretaries and the like.. start a significantly self-overrated organization following on the heels of the Jesus movement..

Some people call that a proof by construction. If the theory fits all of the requirements, it's proved.. I don't know what all the requirements are, but you bring up a few good points. 1. His heritage. And he was damn proud of it.. 2. He did carry the Myth of the Six Million, hoax of the twentieth century (I think) and Koestler's book, in his bookstore.. and denied, or greatly minimized the horrors of the Holocaust.. for that matter, he "demonized" Catholics, homosexuals, and others who didn't agree with his theology.. 3. He subscribed to and promoted every lunatic fringe conspiracy theory, that served his purposes.. 4. He surrounded himself with armed and consciousless goons who would pretty much do his bidding.. 5. He claimed to have a basically *infallible* message.. I dunno. Personally, I think these points would suggest that he COULD be a Nazi.. others seem to be able to take these facts, roll them together, and come to the conclusion that he was some kinda manogawd..

and the key to make it all work? Be iconoclastic.. be "special", "unique".. to reduce the differences and arguments to solely that of doctrines and beliefs. Then one may generally get away with DOING what one "fool well pleases.." I think it's a "Clintonesque" strategy. Leave enough doctrinal dead bodies for the press to choke on, and perhaps they'll never catch up with perpetrator..

Interesting observation. Seems most of us have a blind spot.. arguing who is more blind is kinda futile at times.. I don't know if it's a blind spot, more than an eye patch, to keep the real light of reality from looking in.. I think in the end, we will all agree that we are all wrong..

actually, I think that is the heart of his new "redemptive view" of der vey.. it was "bad", but it wasn't really "that bad".. if he paints the old ministry in it's true light.. then how does he paint his "ministry"? "error slowly crept in.." in other words, he believes, or claims there was a time when all was holy, pure and wonderful.. when the reality of the matter, the organization and herr "doctor" appear to be corrupt from day one..

I think jl would have been ahead of the game if he just left it at that..

If one wants to teach math, chemistry, english, physics, or other field "unlike it has been known since the earth cooled".. one needs even MORE than seventeen years of formal education.. more like twenty five or so.. I think in a year's time, one might come to understand someone else's take on scripture.. how do you propose to impart this level of "knowledge" and "wisdom"? will the "inductees" emerge miraculously with a working knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic? or will they emerge with a *closed mind* and YOUR take on the bible?

what about another statement.. "the way to a man's heart is through his penis.." where is THAT in the bible? maybe that was true for the vicster himself.. but I wouldn't want to be painted with the same brush..

"in depth spiritual perception and awareness.." hah. all I perceive, is an intellectully dumbed down "renewed mind" self or otherwise inflicted egotistical attitude that CAN'T consider any other valid options.. well, that's the end of my analysis of corps principle one.. what's next.. hmm. To receive training in the whole word, so as to be able to teach others.. how can one do this in only one year? To "be able to teach" in an academic sense requires something like seventeen years of school work..

Not today.. I think they are very much alike.. more so now than ever.. No *real* charismatic leader.. in my opinion, rosie doesn't exude "greatness".. and "twigs" are likely soooo bland, it might be more intellectually challenging to stuff ice down one's pants.. all that seems to be left, is hype, and their *charismatic leaders* can't cough up very much of that.. all that's left seems to be a form of vain boasting.. j.l. has his "package" "unparalleled" in content, since the first century.. rosie and gang have their *ministry* of "over sixty years of *biblical* research".. it's really pathetic.. what have either organization done *biblically* in recent years? They CLAIM to be "biblical" organizations.. one has left a trail of abuse, manipulation, spiritualistic practices, intrigue, lawsuits.. and a "no compromise" position as to what they PERCEIVE to be the will of gawd.. the other one, well, it's left us.. another trail of abuse, manipulation, spiritualistic practices, intrigue, lawsuits.. and a "no compromise" position as to what they PERCEIVE to be the will of gawd..

ya know.. in that little "diversion" I was on between Bluefield and Princeton WV.. I could have been a "god for a day"..but I chose not to be.. I don't know if this makes much sense.. I told the "bigwig" in charge about this.. and he said I should have told the poor people I was lucifer, or something.. that they were serving the wrong god.. Weird in a way.. I could have actually had a following at the time.. :) sorry, too much power for me.. heheh.

every person that has crossed my path.. it's been for a reason.. and for the most part, I've figured out why.. even "the kid".. maybe he's not "spirtual" enough yet to figure it out.. :) maybe I'm a voice, from the future.. I've had some of these voices.. I wish I had listened sometimes..

One thing I know.. I got his attention. Therefore.. my hands are clean in this matter.. whatever happens, the blood is on their hands, should they shed it..

The sad thing is the kid probably regards me as an enemy.. when I'm anything but.. just another "critic".. too bad.. the current "advisors" that surround him would probably say "go for it, BE gawd.."

what I find interesting Frank.. the "teacher" really was entirely unqualified to teach the subject to begin with.. his legitimate degree was in homiletics, was it not? And the "doctorate".. I won't even go there today.. as far as christian and family relationships, and as a COUNSELLOR, I think he was worse than a buffoon. what counsellor, in their right or professional mind, would exhibit pornography to young adults, with the distinct possibility and more that they may be viewed by those under age? Especially the doggy video.. the troubling part is how effortlessly he described copulation, body parts, etc.. to a group a third his age.. I remember his claims how it was all so wonderful, and "kids" wouldn't have to learn about sex in the streets.. honestly, I don't see much difference. Learn about sex from a lecherous bar keeper, or learn about it from a lecherous rogue "preacher".. same difference..

It's almost like he's clueless.. maybe he is. I really think, as a self-esteemed "prophet" or "minister" or whatever ministry hat he chooses to wear, he really believes that: 1. He's right. Yep. "the word" ALWAYS "works", doesn't it? That may be part of the reason he doesn't have a whole heck of a lot to do with other christians.. with different views than his.. 2. As one who "labors in the word" he is worthy and deserving of our support. Financially, physically, mentally.. if not *him*.. then his *ministry*. I think he really thinks the "believers" owe him a living.. and if not him, his organization.. his "package", unlike anything since the earth cooled.. *his* conjunction of "truths".. beliefs apparently are not negotiable..

"Counsel" in the old ministry rapidly disintegrated.. from trying to perform "psychic surgery" on people with bone knives and chisels.. to analysis why the "word" wasn't "moving" like it oughter.. they then began to offer unsolicited advice as to one's sex life, finances, hobbies, family relationships, child raising.. what kind of art one should display in the house, what kind of music is appropriate.. then went as far as to try "discern spirits" and weed out "the bad people" who were supposedly the root of the manufactured "problem".. then went as far as to dictate where people live, whether they could buy a house, under what terms.. I wonder if the new group will undergo the same metamorphosis.. what will they do when the "word" doesn't "move like it oughter.."

Thanks for your comments Penworks. I think they have some relevance to a sub-topic of this thread.. I'm not belittling anyone's real love and concern and dedication, even back then, but large numbers of corps graduates had the distinction: "incompetent to counsel". In other words, from what I read from your comments, and those of DWBH on other threads, the corps went through training that really didn't prepare most of them to counsel people with real problems. casting out "devils", "exhorting" people to stay "positive" and sweep problems under the rug- works nice if people don't have real "problems" to begin with.. then it's a matter of sales. Sell them the "problem".. then miraculously provide the solution.. who needs a degree in psychology or psychiatry when they can have an "in depth spiritual perception and awareness"? I know of a "counselling" session of a later corps lady rev gave to a couple.. and shrieked "you are POSSESSED" at the husband because he would not do "exactly as I tell you" to resolve some issue.. and the advice had the potential of causing quite a bit of harm.. I just wonder if this new group is going to follow the same pattern. Seem to, so far.. as far as outside inquiry is concerned. so.. next question. Who on staff has at least a Master's degree in psychology, or even psychiatry? Is the highest degree held a bachellor's in history or business?

Seems every year, it's getting harder to hide behind the separationist issues, when one's actions cause harm..

So.. if you think you're going back to the "purity" of the "good old days".. before loy, before rosie.. what DO you think of mental health professionals, counsellors, and the like? from DWBH on another thread.. I put the same question to you now. What do you think? Is it "the verd, the verd, and nothing but der verd..", and modern psychology and psychiatry was born in a seance? Do you FEAR the practice of modern psychiatry? Do you think that devils abound in psychiatric practice? Or do you think that all one needs is a "hopped up" holy spirit walk, "all nine all the time..".. cast out the devil, remove the cause, and "voila"- the person is "cured"? Do you think that god or jesus oppose these professional, theraputic relationships? just a side thought. Just perhaps.. if your brand of "therapy" goes "sour", some jurisdictions MAY hold you liable. Legally and financially that is. I personally don't have the time to check it out.. but before I hung out a shingle I'd consider it..

Words from Penworks on another thread, might be relevant here. So "new" group, what are you going to do that is any bit different? How are your "ministers" going to "run to serve"? Are you equipping them with the illusion that a few Dale Carnegie motivational techniques, and a few "positive" bible teachings will solve people's *real* problems? Will this "in depth" spiritual(?) perception and awareness you claim to be fostering in the followers actually DO something.. other than give them regrets for the damage they've done in a few years? Or like the way, will you only be looking for people who are young, successful, and healthy to begin with to "showcase" the "success" of your ministry? just a few more questions.. :)

Welcome to the Cafe, Green Hornet. I would consider that those who spoke up often were bullied, given the "bum's rush", marked as possessed, placed under house arrest in at least one case, defamed, etc..

I dunno.. seems he'd finally get it.. never going to have the mog worship and all, at least to the extent he had in twi.. kinda pathetic ending for someone with a little potential, addicted to praise, beating every bush, working every ex-wayer he can find to listen to his "wise counsel".. even goes as far as to "leak" his stuff here, to shake up a few more phone calls and emails.. "just call him.." no thanks. No more "christian" motivational techniques for me.. The first letter here, I imagine he got a couple hundred phone calls.. the next, maybe twenty five- the last one, I think I could here the crowd booing.. It's like a golf tournament. I imagine if you can't get a ball already on the green in the hole with less than ten puts or so, the crowd starts jeering..

I always wondered what the *bigwigs* would do if one served them deviled eggs as a dinner entre..