Ham

So I wonder.. what to the "board" constitutes "training in the whole word.." vic's pfal series? Does part of this concept include the vicster's claim that cancer = devil possession? if so, how do you reconcile the fact that der manogawd to the whole world succumbed to this disease? Will your group shun those who contract this disease as "contaminated", "compromised", "possessed"? If you hold the words of vic true you will.. and his own words condemned the man himself..

This morning, I've been thinking.. the manner they withheld these little details and such, were they not treating me like a CHILD? and of course the rest of the ministry that wasn't involved in the inner circle? were they so deathly afraid that little "johnny" would get upset, and go play somewhere else? I was twenty years old at the time.. and there were those in their thirties and forties.. don't their brains and great wordagawd they supposedly got count for SOMETHING? Seems they didn't trust us.. or could trust us with the facts.. and every effort was geared to keep a sick, dysfunctional, incestuous "family" together, all like it always supposedly had been.. DWBH's exposition showed how sick it really was..

That really has to hurt.. Well, I don't think it would exactly look so good on a resume.. I'm sure they check how one performs how well they function as a p.r. person. He didn't exactly pull twi's reputation out to the fire, or anything.. then staff in the 90's wasn't what it used to be either. He may have worn the p.r. hat.. but between sorting out peas, peanuts and press releases from the lawsuits, they probably had him cleaning the parking lot.. I dunno.. maybe he got the priviledge to "coordinate" the cleaning of rosie's swimming pool.. I know of some staff they did that kind of thing to.. crushed professional type people with micro-management and menial labor that any reputable company would contract out to a cleaning business.. true. I think they just couldn't put enough spin on anything lawsuit related to make it look "good". "we PREVAILED.. only lost 16 million when we coulda lost 50.."

I see this is the last statement he gave regarding the matter.. and it's been almost EIGHT YEARS. I wonder if he's struggling with grammar and spelling issues, working over the fiftieth revision for release.. I mean, he said we WILL release something, didn't he? Rico lie? Naw...

and the "warm welcome" you received from those sycophants shows one thing, at least to me: they will NOT change, unless it is EXPEDIENT, or under great duress..

I understand false prophets can at times do miracles.. I know of one, genuine, at least to the recipient, healing the vicster supposedly performed.. his "jesus lookalike" miracle in india.. is questionable at best. looking at the wake of sexual and otherwise abuse victims.. ruined lives.. I think any "good" he did exacted a great price..

is that ham and pineapple pizza, or ham, and pineapple pizza?

Well, I hope so.. I've already out-lived my dad by about three years. The only thing I can think.. should I meet with a demise before paying back the student loans, they'll probably shoot a couple loan sharks (officers) after giving them explicit instructions to go collect from me..

All that's for those who can "spiritually" handle it ya know..

Now George.. you could have had all that and more, had you climbed a little further up on the MLM ladder..

Where would I be? Well.. I wouldn't be in college at 51 years old.. Probably have a LOT more money.. last week, my account actually hit -1.36. Probably have a doctorate in chemistry, math, physics, or a combination thereof.. probably married and divorced a few times.. probably be a functional alcoholic.. But not miserable. Not that I am miserable now.. Looking at old age and retirement with -1.36 in the bank could depress some people I suppose.. doesn't bother me too much. I guess I'm nutso.. Well.. two good things came out of my involvement. I have two kids.. they are both intelligent, both of them have a college degree, both are married to spouses which I could not hand-pick ones any better.. and neither of them are tied up in a $%*@ cult..

Aha.. so he IS infected with *something*..

plus an aversion to garlic, henbane, and crosses. The vicster did have an aversion to crosses, did he not? Coincidence maybe..

One observation.. assuming that he DID "stand in the gap" for the flock.. it would seem that der vey put up for sale that which the flock already had to begin with. seems they were masters at manufacturing "problems" people never had to begin with..

Did he REALLY think he was "the high priest"? Or some modern equivalent? It would seem so to me..

Haven't seen it either.. at least financially or professionally. hey, if it doesn't work out, can we send meyers the bill?

I think if they can't deal with it PUBLICALLY, they have no godly business starting a new twi knockoff, corps lookalike "training" or any such nonsense. they've like.. moved from under the cover of one organization which thrived on authoritarianism, abuse and lack of accountability to another.. I really think it comes down to money and power. pfal and it's clones are cash cows.. it's like when twi ship was burning and sinking.. it wasn't "save the women and children first.." It was more like.. "for gawd's sakes, get those tapes and books on a lifeboat.."

considering that the vast majority, 99.something percent of Christians believe in the Trinity.. I'd say to be "one of *them*" the belief, or agreement would be necessary..maybe it depends on how one defines "Christian". I think vic's material is irrelevant, as far as any genuine kind of spirituality is concerned. He seemed to be able to debate facts, a few statistics.. but no genuine godliness as such came out of it...

The eye-burning claims were made in twlil..

I don't think we were anywhere near equipped to help. We were trained how to behave about the mogster, how to witness, how to run classes, set up and run meetings, how and when to give money.. but when it came to actually helping someone, I don't think so. There are people that I have no idea what happened to either.. I think we were trained to be helpless. add to that the stigma attached to seeking outside help.

Yeah. Well.. the difference between the two I think.. a real pastor has had several years of post secondary school education.. they are often qualified to counsel people with real problems.. they often do some real good in the community.. and for the most part, they have an untarnished character. Should they choose the plagiarizing, womanizing, abusive path, it's gone in a heartbeat.. I've seen it happen in my own town. plus "preaching da word" is only one small part of a real pastor's duties I think. I may not agree with them, but I can respect them if it is earned, and not based on some unique belief I happen to agree with at the time. I really think if it were not for the "god" bizz, vic very well would have been a gangster.. some of these guys, I don't think have the potential or inclination to do anything else. Like a *lot* of old "leadership" who left the way- all they know how to do is "move da word.." get in front of a microphone, keep the mouth moving, make the same lame claims.. start an offshoot.. keep the donations rolling in, run the gawd bizz.. there are likely more, but I personally know of only three who left vic's tutelage, and plain knew they lacked qualifications, real, honest training, and credentials, and did something about it..

About a year before I was out.. I had about enough of the wayspeak.. so I tried a little experiment. It was cruel.. at "leader"'s house.. in a movie, the character was suddenly afraid. I said, on purpose: "he sure is SPOOKED.." "leader's" mouth dropped open.. he started twitching.. I thought he was going to go into a fit or something.. "sss, sss ssss SPOOKED?? SPOOKED?? sss, sss.. hisss, SPOOKED???" then he succumbed to a fit of laughter.. it probably went in a file somewhere on me..

and qualifications, previous training, and half an education are not required. All one needs is a sufficiently plausible "supernatural" experience, or two. Or more. The more, the better. Some snowy gas pumps, a voice from heaven, utter a few words in an "unknown" tongue over and over again.. in fact.. all of the bad spots on the resume may be "miraculously" scrubbed off with the right kind of holy water, or some claim the blood of the lord.. "that was mah PAST suh.. how dare you impugn my honah and drudge it up..."

It's like.. no longer does need one need to market illegal substances like heroin, cocaine.. or perform robberies at gunpoint. Why rob someone, when one can convince them that gawd almighty REQUIRES them, to hand over the money, VOLUNTARILY? The real success lies in the fact that one may then "rob" the same person, time and again, on a regularly scheduled basis.. The mogster can even give themselves a raise on occasion.. not just tne percent, but twelve, fifteen, or more if the victim wants gawd's good favors..

Mstar's wikipedia reference to the fictional Elmer Gantry caught my attention. In the early 1900's, the proliferation of organized crime and resulting mayhem eventually got the federal officials attention. Whole departments were formed with the sole purpose of eradicating their organizations and products. Capone was finally aprehended on TAX EVASION charges. The mobsters were beginning to find business a lot harder to do.. better armed cops, better intelligence efforts by authorities, better strategies.. trained men.. slowly more difficult to bribe locals.. what to do? Get out of the gangster business? Hardly. Just change gears.. at least the smart ones did. Get in the religion business. Sure.. easy money, don't have to REALLY learn a new skill.. still don't have to lift a finger for manual labor.. The government will SUBSIDIZE you. You are suddenly untouchable- file the right papers, and you're TAX EXEMPT. And like mr. Gantry, one may continue to womanize, guzzle drambuie like it's water, enjoy all of the good material things of life, and if one plays their cards right, one will emerge from scandal and certain ruin never fully discredited, and triumphant. And one will have hordes of VOLUNTEERS to come to the rescue.. to make excuses, rationalizations, anything short of claiming to have been duped.. and the perpetrator doesn't have to give any REAL account for his actions.. It's the one business venture that I know of where one may go from public enemy number one to "manogawd" in the blink of an eye..