Ham

Interesting that when the vicster "cut ties" (was thrown out on his rear) that he took the "issues" WITH HIM. To me it would suggest that his "practices" could not function in the old group.. he merely took his old set of "problems" to a new set of circumstances.. seems that a lot of offspring "ministers" follow in his footsteps. jl is still convinced he left twi with the "gold".. just polish it up a little bit.. change a few minor points.. and he's "made it his own".. I think he's as egotistical and arrogant as the day he was forced out of the confines of twi. Old set of "issues".. new set of circumstances.

and I can do the integrations and such by hand before the prof can figure out how to use the integral tables.. well, easy is relative.. it did take me a bunch of years to get to this point. Double the math required, a half a dozen chemistry classes.. physics.. now I can go back to doing homework in ink..

The interesting thing to me, DWBH.. is one can take "vinny" or "his", "him".. substitute almost any offshoot "leader's" name, and the shoe fits.. and like j.l., they regard the blight of vic's doctrine and practice to be like gold. They've left egypt.. and like Mrs. Presky, they didn't choose the fourteen carat gold bullion, it was a bag of ...... "but it's great ...., Mrs. Presky.."

And it seems like a blight spreading across the land.. I can't criticize anyone for specific beliefs.. what really bothers me is the rampant arrogance, false authoritarianism and egotism that seems to fuel a lot of these groups. And apparently they aren't exactly getting the results they'd like.. this new corpse thingy.. it's almost like the attitude is "by gawd, we are RIGHT.. and we WILL get results, one way or another.." why else put people through a meat grinder.. an "extreme" training.. I think they've perfected the concept of "fake it and you'll make it.." look "christian" enough.. run classes, pretend one has the power of God, make enough noise.. and God *surely* will be on one's side..

Naw.. we won't see him. we're "copouts", "disgruntled".. "have an ax to grind.." I got the mark and avoid treatment after just asking a few pointed questions in private. So the last message I sent was "if you run a slip shod operation like gramps, your'e gonna get your corps "evaluation" in a place like this" with a link to greasespot.. but it's true. Wait ten, fifteen, twenty years or so.. Maybe even far less..

It's very likely that most of those among them consider us possessed. I mean.. who but the debil is gonna try to stand against their *obviously* godly calling.. or speak against it.. I believe they really think that we've sold out to the "enemy".. or at least that's what they keep telling themselves. A naive kid, just barely twenty-something, I can account for a little ignorance and lack of experience.. but an over the hill adult? Maybe it's a product of dementia.. who knows..

or imagine the promise of free labor to a farm owner who is finding it more difficult and increasingly expensive to do business..

I would agree. Not to say the money wasn't demanded.. it was almost like they felt "entitled".. but it just greased the pan..

I dunno. Personally, I wouldn't make that phone call.. the itty bitty mogster wanabe very likely already has delusions of messiahship.. any kind of inquiry or shakedown from the locals, and they'd spin it to look like he was gawd almighty..

jp. He grew up in cff, started by w. cl*pp and john shr*yer. It seems he has broken away from cff.. they do advertise his little "extreme" adventure on their web site. shr*yer was still warm in the ground when v2p2 and group made their big announcement for sowers.. makes me go "hmmm"..

He's already developed the arrogance of gramps.. and he's only in his early twenties. Leave? I think he's so addicted to praise and adoration he wouldn't live a week without it.. The pathetic thing.. he did manage to crawl out of his shell long enough to get a bachellors. Now he's retreated back to the security of fawning, aging followers in the Mississippi swamp..

Is that a Guinness that squirrel is guzzling? maybe that's it.. guzzle down about two or three dozen of those, and the "program" will start to look a little better..

unbelievable.. even back in "the day".. I thought it was "odd" they'd name the kid after gramps.. now he has to fulfill "prophecy".. shame on the parent.. #$&*!... the kid oughta be in grad school.. wtf is he doing in a bayou swamp..

Could be.. There are two takes here that I know of.. 1. He doesn't know about gramps proclivities.. 2. He knows, but just doesn't care. The first choice.. shame on the parent.. honestly.. and "advisors". and they KNOW the real history of der vey.. the second choice, shame on him.. it's a blood stained mantle I wouldn't want to pick up..

I think I've worn them all out.. don't worry. I'll come up with a few more in a day or so.. gotta have some kinda official "welcome" when the doors open..

The only thing I can say.. shame on the parents. Really.. yeah.. the times are "urgent".. hard making a living driving a truck.. even harder making a decent living with just a bachellor's in history.. or even business. If it were my kid who graduated maga cum laude, I'd be kicking his a** into grad school.. or at the very least STRONGLY encouraging it..

Yeah. Signs and wonders don't necessarily follow religious pretenders and zealots either.. a lot of what I saw in the old ministry was just plain old pretending.. pretending to minister "healing".. pretending to have gawd's inside scoop on everybody's lives.. I think I posed a fairly reasonable question. "What are you doing that's any DIFFERENT?" If the guy can actually miraculously clean out hospital wards, multiply bread, raise the dead- I don't think I'd really have an argument here. "well, we just need enough 'community believing'.. let's build an organization.." Sounds like just another insane excuse to start another cult..

what I find interesting.. is how some capitalize on that which we do not know, whether due to gross ignorance (and I don't think that's exactly it..) or merely ignorance just being part of the agreement for this stinking existence.. it's unconscionable.. what can be known seems to be shrouded in a religious haze, superstition, and "hooey".. maybe we can't handle the truth..

"Unusual".. it would be as unusual to find a bunch of physicists that insisted on the "God breathed" accuracy of Newtonian mechanics.. or the "accuracy" of Neils Bohr's atomic theory- which only mathmatically explained hydrogen. Once one looks at helium, or any other element, it falls apart.. People in the "real world" have a grip on this.. they don't think or claim Newton, or Bohr, or anyone before them were "wrong" as such.. more like, they were on the right track. In physics, we still study Bohr's development. Why? Because it's "god breathed".. "errorless".. ? No.. but because what he developed was a stepping stone along the way to what we know about modern physics..

I'm suprised they didn't show us where to drill holes in the head to let the spirits out..

It's almost like hotel California.. we keep stabbing the beast.. and it won't quite die..

You'd think so, wouldn't you.. then you walk through life.. and something like this knocks on your door.. look kinda familiar? :)

Then there was music.. while not on an "official" "forbidden" list.. what would happen if your immediate "overseer" came.. and heard you listening to John Lennon.. or the Beatles.. or ELP.. or.. on and on.. and art. Why would one want a nice painting by Monet.. when one can have a copy of loy and family's picture on the refrigerator..

well.. there was forbidden vocabulary. "luck", "fortune", "christmas", "demons", and the short list here is not anywhere near exhaustive. loy even had reservations about calling the days of the week monday, tuesday, wednesday.. because the names were dervived (supposedly) from the names of pagan gods..

I think anybody who's would be willing to apologize has already done so..