Ham

I think it also demonstrates the unparalled greed of the one who made that statement. How many garbage bags full of money does one need to wallow in before one is satisfied?

and "for the sake of accuracy" let's not forget he didn't REALLY have a doctorate. A sham piece of paper that might find a better use in an outhouse than hanging in more esthetic surroundings. but a "Dotorate", no.

It's almost, if not entirely Machievellian.. at least seems to me. The "Prince" can't afford the "luxury" to adopt the "ordinary" morals of citizenry. I think in der vey's case, the "prince's" primary responsability was to study how to make war on, not other nations, but different religious groups and centers of thought. There WERE two different sets of morals and standards in the organization.. that's pretty obvious. Dissention was quashed with a brutal hand of terror.. with such efficiency, that dissention was usually put down, even before it could possibly occur. Can't you just FEEL the "love".. I think they sent out goons and hatchet (ahem) "men" to our area to bleed off those who wouldn't tolerate loy's "indiscretions" before they even came to light. Look who's left..

Ya know.. all it would have taken would be for one of them to sneeze or twitch just right, and a lot of the "clergy problem" would have been solved.. Dooj, the real troubling part of this to me is, why would a *MINISTER* in a CHURH need to pack lead, to either enforce compliance, or to protect oneself from the "flock"? it juist sounds like an insane mindset to begin with.

It was all probably carted off by goons packing heat..

I never really looked at it like that.. kinda gives one a sick feeling, no?

No, but he "ordained" them. "those who labor(?) in the word.." and like a group of lemmings. people STILL follow these falsely ordained "ministers" and "laborers" into any thing that resembles wayworld..

"laid (the money) at the apostles feet.." then.. the real.. I can't find the word at the moment.. just pretend to be an apostle. Act like one can do miracles.. have "truth".. oh.. "new light". "well, we oughter support those who steal, ahem, labor in da word.."

I think I need someone to explain how I got "benefited". lessee. I have enough rent money in the account for the coming month.. and if Wall Sthreet has it's way at the best it will be "delayed".. maybe that's it.. I'm not "near" enough "headquarters." *Hey mister, heyyyyyyy.. come back... *in tears* takes my money.. pleasssse, takes my money..

Did the trustees tithe.. I don't think so. Unless one considers the money vic *reluctantly* forked out for abortions for corps who weren't *careful*.. as some strange, twisted kind of "tithe".. As far as donations- I think they donated ministry money to the surrounding schools a couple of years ago, and at least one university. Not their own personal money, I don't think. Probably tired of the locals on their backs..

vic claimed to live on some ridiculously low salary. I forget what the exact amount was, but now I'm of the suspicion that it was only the amount that showed on the books. Then there were gifts, cash offerings, etc. from loyal followers. I HIGHLY doubt that any of these showed up on a 1040 form.

I remember that Frank. Only time any "believers" saw any "blessing" in over twenty five years involvement. The only other time I know of that the proceeds of da "ministry" went to anything but it's self-serving purposes.. vic paid some local to bring rabbits in to ohio, because a bad winter killed them all. he wanted his grandkids to be able to see rabbits in the wild. That's it- all I know of. That any of it went to actually help anyone, or anything. It's like the memory of Capone. A few got doughnuts, as for the rest, well- they got dope, booze, mayhem and lead..

Maybe this "tithing", "abundant sharing" and "absent Christ" concepts actually do relate to one another. Example. Take a Godless, Christless organization, (he's *absent*, is he not?)- it would seem that would leave a rather large "hole". We can't just have a big hole out there.. someone might trip, and we'd get sued. What to fill it with? Hmm.. how about.. MONEY?

Then I can't understand how someone could even think that someone who squandered the meager 12 to 15 percent they were entrusted with on airplanes, motorcoaches and date rape drugs to be a "representative" of god either. Don't take it as a personal attack. I'm really trying to understand this.. If I change majors, and get into psychology, maybe I'll use it for a thesis..

Then I don't see how people can't understand logic. 1. God REQUIRES a tithe from you, as a bare MINIMUM, to be given to "those who are his REPRESENTATIVES", as a BARE MINIMUM. 2. *WE* are his REPRESENTATIVES. 3.. So some infer, "naw, they NEVER SAID to give them da money.."

I don't think it's any better than a foreign lotto scheme.. you know.. cash a check that bounces which one MUST repay, and send the proceeds to somebody outside of US jurisdiction, so they can "release" the rest of the funds to you.. No "lotto" money? must've not played "accurately".. what's even more amazing.. people get bit, just ONCE by the lotto scheme, generally, they'd never fall for it again. but add *god* to the equation.. a lot of them line up by droves for a few more "blessings"..

amazing.. the whole premise of pfal, and tithing, etc.. wasn't it to tap into the RESOURCES? Yeah.. the "resources" for the "more abundant life".. five things to know receive ANYTHING from God.. it's almost like.. they turned God into a clerk, who would rubber stamp your request, if you got all the details right on the form.. or a fiendish welfare officer, who wouldn't release needed funds unless one greased his palm with ten percent or more of meager earnings.. "don't even bother to pray, unless you tithe.." so here I sit.. less than 150.00 in the bank.. going to school in the hopefully second half of my life.. trying to scrape out a living.. what happened to all of those years of giving fifteen percent? I should be super-rich. Where's the payoff? Oh. I forgot. I musta not "practiced *all* of the "principles" *accurately*.. maybe I need a few more hoops to jump through.. What a con game.. it's almost as honest as trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.. "buying blessings.." I would rename that.. "commercializing spirituality". then over the years, it slowly morphed into, not buying blessings, but paying for disaster insurance. "well, you may be dirt poor, etc. but don't complain. it could be far worse.. imagine what may have happened if you didn't tithe.." Personally, I wouldn't want a god who could be BOUGHT. I mean, that would make him inferior to me, wouldn't it?

*Puts on tweety costume* "Twig?? Oh doody doody.." Actually, I think the corporation papers of da way list an Arizona address instead of an Ohio one. It's somewhere on GS.. can't find it at the time.

I saw that after I posted. Seems we were both posting the same thing at the same time..

The one seventh of one's time could be skillfully divided between cleaning "leaders" houses, babysitting their kids, setting up and running classes.. shill witnessing at malls and parks, and "door to door". That amounts to three eight hour work days without lunch time or any kind of break. I thought the "tithe" of time in the old testament was supposed to be a day of rest.

Maybe a lot of it wasn't "faked" more than it was "manufactured". Myself- I was looking for a connection like a real family. I lost both parents before I graduated from high school. The rest of my family was basically divided and scattered to the wind. I really think the promise of being "family" is too much to offer, and too much to expect.

Interesting.. what's in the "new" class looks practically identical to doctrine I saw in the 1970's. The only small difference, is that the "principles" must be "successfully" and "accurately" operated for it to work. In other words, if you lose your house, if your health fails.. apparently you didn't operate the principles "successfully", or "accurately". Might be part of a legal disclaimer. I wonder if they really read that verse.. it says that Abraham was blessed FIRST, THEN he gave. In other words, he didn't "practice the principle accurately and successfully", and EARN the blessing.. Seems their message is, "tithing, it was good enough for Abraham, it should be good enough for us.."

It wasn't my body, it was my mind. And it felt like my individuality was being burned off.. but it wasn't exactly unpleasant. If I could find a drug to duplicate it, I'd make a fortune on it.. only happened once.. long after I'd abandoned speaking in tongues, renewing of the mind and such.. Accompanied with this: there was the logical part of me that just looked on, and was trying to figure out which neurotransmitters were involved. I still functioned quite well.. went to work, still went to classes.. the only difference anyone may have noticed was a smile on my face. Is this what you are talking about?

The same "brain" even infiltrates a hobby as beneign as amateur radio. There's one group under a now well aging "charismatic" leader.. it seems to be in decline.. he named his organization, to very closely match the name of the big radio association in america.. many members in his organization think he's some kind of "savior" of radio.. gonna "pull the hobby out of the fire" so to speak.. his adherants would "witness" to other hams at different conventions.. the guy flouts fcc rules and regulations.. and he gets "slapped". Of course, his followers think he's just getting persecuted.. arbitrarily picked on.. when in reality, one has to be REALLY REALLY bad to get that kind of attention from the fcc.. seeing this "brain" in a different context is probably one of the things that helped me relax the mind-numbing grip of twi from my own self..

I think "waybrain" is the same thing that inflicts the zealots who follow hubbard, crowley, armstrong, TM, Jim Jones, koresh, Simon the Sorcerer, the deluded people who followed the egyptian(?) prophet, referenced in the book of acts, to their destruction.. the followers of Hitler, etc., etc.. I think vic just happened to be another small footnote in this hall of shame.. it's obvioulsy not about any specific belief.