Ham

same damn mindset too.. I'm one of the "critics".. despite the fact I offer the most objective analysis and practical "wisdom" that he'll never see from the yes *men* (cough) that want to see a "boy from Brazil" inherit the "greatness" of his ancestor.. friggin idjits.. it's not present "truth".. it's present evil.. keep reading, friend..

surely greater things, eh? I'm dealing with his grandkid, who seems to have inherited the same or worse arrogance and egotism, if not (eventually) the same morals.. you tell me if it isn't "relevant".

And how much "time" did he ACTUALLY "put in"? I know a few with PHD's in math.. it took a few YEARS. Now as to choosing a second rate institution, for a doctorate "program".. he was "educated", was he not? In other words.. even if he got scammed, he should have known better.. he'd been around the "real deal", at least for a few years. but who were these "critics"? I'd still like to know.

Yeah. well, I think the real troubling thing is how he disregarded these men (and perhaps women) who seemed to take question with his credentials.. Doesn't as much as name them. Practically called them enemies. I think this shows how warped his logic was even at that time. It would be like, Capone whining because somebody called him a gangster..

Then.. who were these "critics" actually supposed to be, who were blowing the whistle on herr vicmeister? Pretty vague description. This was in 1971 I think.. long before the real hoopla. Were they ministers in the surrounding countryside? Perhaps former church members who knew him? Why would he omit their names, unless he really would rather one not look them up? makes me wonder..

I don't have a copy of it anymore, but didn't the victoid tell Whiteside something like.. "ya know, my *critics* say I got my phd from a degree mill.." Seems to me, either it's true, or it isn't. Why put those words in the mouths of those he considered "critics"? It almost insinuates that they have the burden of proof. Then he doesn't really adequately address the claim.. just spins another yarn about how the pres of the "institution" was some kinda "maverick", and was a high official in the education system.. which was also disproven. and how he modeled pfal out of the methods of *mr* lininger..

I think it also demonstrates the unparalled greed of the one who made that statement. How many garbage bags full of money does one need to wallow in before one is satisfied?

and "for the sake of accuracy" let's not forget he didn't REALLY have a doctorate. A sham piece of paper that might find a better use in an outhouse than hanging in more esthetic surroundings. but a "Dotorate", no.

It's almost, if not entirely Machievellian.. at least seems to me. The "Prince" can't afford the "luxury" to adopt the "ordinary" morals of citizenry. I think in der vey's case, the "prince's" primary responsability was to study how to make war on, not other nations, but different religious groups and centers of thought. There WERE two different sets of morals and standards in the organization.. that's pretty obvious. Dissention was quashed with a brutal hand of terror.. with such efficiency, that dissention was usually put down, even before it could possibly occur. Can't you just FEEL the "love".. I think they sent out goons and hatchet (ahem) "men" to our area to bleed off those who wouldn't tolerate loy's "indiscretions" before they even came to light. Look who's left..

Ya know.. all it would have taken would be for one of them to sneeze or twitch just right, and a lot of the "clergy problem" would have been solved.. Dooj, the real troubling part of this to me is, why would a *MINISTER* in a CHURH need to pack lead, to either enforce compliance, or to protect oneself from the "flock"? it juist sounds like an insane mindset to begin with.

It was all probably carted off by goons packing heat..

I never really looked at it like that.. kinda gives one a sick feeling, no?

No, but he "ordained" them. "those who labor(?) in the word.." and like a group of lemmings. people STILL follow these falsely ordained "ministers" and "laborers" into any thing that resembles wayworld..

"laid (the money) at the apostles feet.." then.. the real.. I can't find the word at the moment.. just pretend to be an apostle. Act like one can do miracles.. have "truth".. oh.. "new light". "well, we oughter support those who steal, ahem, labor in da word.."

I think I need someone to explain how I got "benefited". lessee. I have enough rent money in the account for the coming month.. and if Wall Sthreet has it's way at the best it will be "delayed".. maybe that's it.. I'm not "near" enough "headquarters." *Hey mister, heyyyyyyy.. come back... *in tears* takes my money.. pleasssse, takes my money..

Did the trustees tithe.. I don't think so. Unless one considers the money vic *reluctantly* forked out for abortions for corps who weren't *careful*.. as some strange, twisted kind of "tithe".. As far as donations- I think they donated ministry money to the surrounding schools a couple of years ago, and at least one university. Not their own personal money, I don't think. Probably tired of the locals on their backs..

vic claimed to live on some ridiculously low salary. I forget what the exact amount was, but now I'm of the suspicion that it was only the amount that showed on the books. Then there were gifts, cash offerings, etc. from loyal followers. I HIGHLY doubt that any of these showed up on a 1040 form.

I remember that Frank. Only time any "believers" saw any "blessing" in over twenty five years involvement. The only other time I know of that the proceeds of da "ministry" went to anything but it's self-serving purposes.. vic paid some local to bring rabbits in to ohio, because a bad winter killed them all. he wanted his grandkids to be able to see rabbits in the wild. That's it- all I know of. That any of it went to actually help anyone, or anything. It's like the memory of Capone. A few got doughnuts, as for the rest, well- they got dope, booze, mayhem and lead..

Maybe this "tithing", "abundant sharing" and "absent Christ" concepts actually do relate to one another. Example. Take a Godless, Christless organization, (he's *absent*, is he not?)- it would seem that would leave a rather large "hole". We can't just have a big hole out there.. someone might trip, and we'd get sued. What to fill it with? Hmm.. how about.. MONEY?

Then I can't understand how someone could even think that someone who squandered the meager 12 to 15 percent they were entrusted with on airplanes, motorcoaches and date rape drugs to be a "representative" of god either. Don't take it as a personal attack. I'm really trying to understand this.. If I change majors, and get into psychology, maybe I'll use it for a thesis..

Then I don't see how people can't understand logic. 1. God REQUIRES a tithe from you, as a bare MINIMUM, to be given to "those who are his REPRESENTATIVES", as a BARE MINIMUM. 2. *WE* are his REPRESENTATIVES. 3.. So some infer, "naw, they NEVER SAID to give them da money.."

I don't think it's any better than a foreign lotto scheme.. you know.. cash a check that bounces which one MUST repay, and send the proceeds to somebody outside of US jurisdiction, so they can "release" the rest of the funds to you.. No "lotto" money? must've not played "accurately".. what's even more amazing.. people get bit, just ONCE by the lotto scheme, generally, they'd never fall for it again. but add *god* to the equation.. a lot of them line up by droves for a few more "blessings"..

amazing.. the whole premise of pfal, and tithing, etc.. wasn't it to tap into the RESOURCES? Yeah.. the "resources" for the "more abundant life".. five things to know receive ANYTHING from God.. it's almost like.. they turned God into a clerk, who would rubber stamp your request, if you got all the details right on the form.. or a fiendish welfare officer, who wouldn't release needed funds unless one greased his palm with ten percent or more of meager earnings.. "don't even bother to pray, unless you tithe.." so here I sit.. less than 150.00 in the bank.. going to school in the hopefully second half of my life.. trying to scrape out a living.. what happened to all of those years of giving fifteen percent? I should be super-rich. Where's the payoff? Oh. I forgot. I musta not "practiced *all* of the "principles" *accurately*.. maybe I need a few more hoops to jump through.. What a con game.. it's almost as honest as trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.. "buying blessings.." I would rename that.. "commercializing spirituality". then over the years, it slowly morphed into, not buying blessings, but paying for disaster insurance. "well, you may be dirt poor, etc. but don't complain. it could be far worse.. imagine what may have happened if you didn't tithe.." Personally, I wouldn't want a god who could be BOUGHT. I mean, that would make him inferior to me, wouldn't it?

*Puts on tweety costume* "Twig?? Oh doody doody.." Actually, I think the corporation papers of da way list an Arizona address instead of an Ohio one. It's somewhere on GS.. can't find it at the time.

I saw that after I posted. Seems we were both posting the same thing at the same time..