Ham

as far as working heartily unto the lord, TO an organization, making it equivalent to serving God.. What about a hit man in the mob? I mean.. yeah, he probably really enjoys his line of work and all..

Personally,I'll never serve an organization, again.. never. Serve IN an organization where I'm not stuffing sycophants pockets with moolah, and actually making a DIFFERENCE? Perhaps. Like the radio club here. It has an organization, corporation papers, insurance, an elected board (unpaid), and.. they serve the community. Club equipment is bought and paid for at the VOTE of club members.. and it is put in service for possible disaster communications, or for community public service. Every last dollar is accounted for.. publically. At the club meeting of course, but we don't have bars on the windows and locks on the doors to keep inquiring minds from checking it out.. The treasurer presents the club financial status at EVERY monthly meeting.. even more detail than many would want to know. That's what I call an "organization", the REAL purpose of 501C. and it doesn't exist to be served.. it exists to serve, to give back to the community and society in general the benefits of electronic communications of all kinds. There are THOUSANDS of little clubs and groups like this, all over the United States. And.. 99.9 percent of them are honest, above board with finances. Why is it, if one adds religion to the equation.. I won't say it happens in every case, but why do these sycophants really think they have to offer, that they put out a shingle, or start a farm, and put up a sign: "Here am I, serve *me*"? Some may see it differently, but I almost think it's a sin to send them money.. donate a vehicle, labor.. at least a transgression of ordinary common sense..

The same smugness, insolence, arrogance and egotism has seeded itself in lotsa offshoots as well. Like DWBH says, they inherit their ancestor's spiritual DNA.. look at the new "sewers" endeavor. I found a few honest questions and inquiry answered with the same insolence, arrogance.. egotism.. "grrr, an *elder* oughta not ask questions like that.. who do you think you are?" I say it's time for the "body of christ" to terminate these raging lunatic's employment..

and in my opinion, that is as far as it POSSIBLY can go. Now, if it were a *real* spiritual kinda organization, there would be some REASONABLE accountability as an EMPLOYEE, but staff should be a PARTNERSHIP. For some, that is what it may have been once, long ago. You may disagree, but dredging up "volunteers" to profit and further the organization, as a DEBT- one seventh of one's time, and a minimum of one tenth of one's income, goes way over the line. At least the way I think. I really think the organization supposedly exists to serve, not to be served. The few servants on the top just turned vile and reprehensible.. greedy, arrogant.. hateful, insolent.. loy typified what was and is really wrong in da supposed *ministry*.. when he refused to do his supposed "god given" job, and the abundant sharing started drying up, and he wasn't being "served" properly, he threw a nasty little tantrum..

The little "snag" I see in this.. is da "ministry" is not my, or anyone elses, "master". I really don't think the *ministry* is to be served. at the most, *they* are supposed to be SERVANTS.. maybe servants that turned egotistical, abusive, hateful.. full of pride and arrogance, but they are still- just servants. Servants that have lost sight of, and perhaps even the ability or inclination to perform their JOB. Kinda like corporate america, and the government, in general. The ONLY difference I see between twi and the federal government.. with twi, the "voters" can't run rosie, donna, and crew out of office.

This "changing of the name" is supposed to be something "biblical". Like.. Abram becoming Abraham, Sarai becoming Sarah.. because something fundamentally supposedly changed. In CES's case, what, if anyone could even see.. what fundamentally changed? same "take" on "truth".. same classes, same materials.. same worn out "worda gawd" like it supposedly hasn't been known since the first century. I really think that with the change of the name, they really thought something was changing in a fundamental manner. What was it supposed to be? just a few thoughts..

Hair? I thought it looked more like mold.. but that's a good question.. I wonder how the current stfi "partner" thinks about the organization, with the prophecy "blues".. js pretty much thinks they have a biblical "handle" on prophecy.

Disgruntled.. that's what they like to call it.. I think it's more like "just tired of the same old nonsense.."

Hmm. This thread is so "delightful".. how'd I miss it Taz? It's almost like.. they moved from a more "masculine" Christian educational services.. to a more in touch with their femine side.. "spirit and truth international.." It's almost like.. they've submitted themselves to some kind of "operation".. but somehow, they've retained the raging male egotism.. Maybe I'm wrong.. or maybe the squirrel has had a little too much cabernet or something.. if it makes sense here.. good. If offensive, or nuts.. just ignore me..

quite different from having your clientelle sign a hold-harmless agreement.. John, have you looked at the Momentus experience? at best, I think the "trainers" are trained how to recognize when their victims are having a heart attack..

The one I went to, everything transfers to any reputable university in Michigan. Except for "remedial" courses (less than 100 level). http://www3.delta.edu/artic/tguides.html The reputable 2 year schools will have an articulation page similar to this.

well, because.. noooo, I won't go there, I won't.. just ask what'shername.. noooooooo..

funny how they "miss" us. maybe if you donate your truck, they'l "let" you come back to "twig".. Amazing.. and they still think the same way.. tossing out little lines to offer a person the "priviledge" to come back.. but they won't offer directly. No.. just hinting, hem hawing around.. "oh, we miss you.. " give a person a way to "redeem" themselves.. hoping you'll beg to go back to servitude.. "here mistah.. come back, come back.. use my truck.. here, I've got forty gallons of gas to toss in besides.. "

I guess.. well, they say millet, potatos and a couple hot dogs can go a long way.. still.. free board? seems it's dependant on "work to be done.." and.. that outfit is likely being run by a group, who at best can cough up one individual who has a bachellor's, and not in something relevant to the task at hand to begin with.. rest of them have victoid clone credentials..

Just another thought.. when was the last time you saw STUDENTS mowing the lawn, doing security, repairing buildings.. fixing trees.. hauling off *devilish* monuments.. re-grouting buildings.. washing windows.. without being PAID to do so? The last time I remember.. it was the indiana campus. Generally, a "work-study" program actually pays someone for their labor. Or at headquarters.. I know they had some staff perform some duties.. but what about all the little "special projects"? Mucking the pond.. etc. etc.. all done in the guise that- they are TEACHING the corps HOW to WORK? Well.. the thought of all this seems so surreal, at least now.. Or.. cleaning leader's houses.. mowing their lawn, shampooing carpets.. babysitting evil, arrogant, egotistical, better than thou little minature mogs.. or limb clean up days.. cutting, hauling, raking, painting, etc.. the list goes on and on. I suppose, convince one it's God's will is all that's really necessary. all by a guy who's degree would be more appropriate "gracing" the wall of an outhouse.. when an offshoot I know of started taking off.. someone who was close to me said something like.."they NEED someone LIKE YOU to get this thing running.." no kidding. Who knows.. maybe I would have gotten a worthless honorary doctorate and certificate of ordination, or something..

that's the route I chose, and I'd recommend it to anyone, providing there ARE any community colleges left after the current economic "crisis".. The math and science curriculum was as good if not better than the 100 and 200 level curriculum offered at the university I'm currently at. And the cost per credit was HALF. I can transfer the credits anywhere in the state. Folded in with a Bachellor's at the current university, they'll go anywhere. Actually, I never got one. I was too poor from constantly abundant sharing, and working at a second rate job so as to be at twi's beck and call. I believe the little statue was a minature of the full sized "da teacher" bronze. I could be wrong, but I think the labor in that little effort was generally unpaid as well..

yep. We were supposed to be part of an organization that was doing something for God.. I think we really expected "God's Word" as we thought it was to prevail in culture.. signs, wonders.. to follow.. multitudes to turn to der vey's take on theology.. and actually have "way believers" hold public office in mass, not just an isolated few like Gahagan.. and "gawd's will" to be done.. maybe it was a madman's gamble. Of course, had it panned out, those little pieces of paper would be worth something.

wouldn't be the first time. I suppose I should rephrase it.. "it was restored largely by UNPAID labor and DONATED resources". I donated, others labored. same for the Rome City campus, old dilapadated buildings.. regrouting, landscaping, tree service, etc. etc.. I suppose every organization can benefit from a "front man".. it's just.. next time around, I'll check the breath for the unmistakable stench of drambuie..

That was with slave labor to boot, was it not? Why is it, the closer one looks at the huckster, the more almost EVERYTHING he *accomplished* was merely stolen? He stole his classes and materials.. he one sidedly used resources to make his own SELF look good.. he even stole his "doctorate". It's almost like an identity theft.. he ingratiated himself with the title, but he did not pay for it the "traditional" way, time, money, and HARD WORK. And the real shame of it all.. those who bought into his *program* got a certificate, just as "legitimate" in the real world as vic's. Seeing him up on stage, in full "academic" dress.. handing out their "great reward".. is now a rather sickening thought..

Something like that. :) Interesting the huckster managed to get his name on an auditorium *I* (and a few others) paid for with our own above 15 percent or so "giving".. I'd like to see it turned into a mall..

Besides accountability, I think it would go a long way if some of the "leaders" developed an honest, real, genuine human sense of humor.. maybe they could take a few insults, without thinking God's gonna kick some rear.. I think they take themselves far, far too seriously. Maybe I'm asking for a little too much..

With the money and resources twi had in the mid seventies, I think they COULD have moved into the category of legitimate mainstream education.. they completely renovated the Carnagie library at emporia. Why stop there? They could have started with getting accredidation as a two year establishment.. and later accredidation as a four year university.. it would have taken some time, work, and MONEY. I think the vicster looked at the price tag, and figured for "gawd's people" it just wasn't worth it.. that there were "better uses" for the money..

I got one too, just because they were handing them out. At least they are honest- claim "this certificate doesn't give you squat.." just the MINIMUM paperwork to perform a legal marriage ceremony according to the laws of whatever state one finds oneself. and it's.. FREE! I really got it so I could boldly say to twi clergy, "I am not inferior to you.. you've got a useless piece of paper, well, I've got one too.."

And who was the big spiritualist vic went to the heels of for "truth"? Wasn't it Arthur Ford? I wonder if he "laid out" the vicster's "ministry" like he supposedly did for Moon..

and I would also say he was a quack who pretended to be a doctor.. One of my professors takes trips out of the country to some of the most unsafe places in the world.. says he doesn't need kevlar anymore. Reason? He figured it out.. you walk around and act like you own the place, even if you don't- and "they" will simply LEAVE YOU ALONE. Won't even question you.. I think that's what the vicster did.. a little known con artist with a doctorate worth a few sheets of toilet paper.. and he acted like king of the world..