Ham

Mainly I think because it was "in house" slander, in front of a selective audience, who were trained to practically believe every word..

Well.. I'm glad somebody else sees a little humor and irony in all of this.. "shoot your way out of a bible meeting".. that's good.. well.. he's the prince of peace.. and if you can't have peace, I guess a piece will suffice..

I've seen what some mother cats do.. one I had would wrap it's front paws around the kitten, well it was a rather large kitten.. and beat the snot out of it with the hind legs.. he ended up being a nice cat though.. I think we found a home for him before he was irreperably damaged.. so this mother cat was violently protective of the babies, and not abusive of the babies themselves? The one cat we had long ago, when it had it's litter.. it would let you handle them. But when you started getting close, she watched your every move.. very intently.. maybe that much care is normal.. but she never would attack us.

I dunno.. have you considered a cat psychiatrist? Other than acting crazy, chasing each other around and causing only a moderate amount of destruction, your kitties counterparts here have been fairly well behaved.. and they are the same, one is pure black, the other is a tuxedo.. they aren't touchy-feely by a long shot.. but I wake up with Samantha sleeping on top of me.. and Salem, the tuxedo, he will crawl up in my lap if I'm not feeling particularly well for one reason or another.. almost like he tries to comfort me.. other than that, I think the only difference between them and tigers or lions is merely the size of the beast.. they exhibit some wild tendancies that I don't think they'll ever get rid of. I've heard cats taken from their mother too soon are just neurotic..

even if one uses the "ends justify the means" defense.. what possible "ends" came out of it to justify this kind of behavior? I really don't think the "ends" will be "a crown of righteousness at the bema" either..

"well.. it was justified.. so da WORD could *live*.." is that so? give me ONE SINGLE CONTRIBUTION all of this has given to society.. other than a few arcane, little known teachings.. other than another raging sycophant with a rather limited audience.. there is basically nothing to show, after twenty five or more years..

and to those who still follow him, take his classes.. revere his teachings.. and give him money.. I ask, why? do you agree with him that this is actually a NORMAL thing to do, and actually appropriate? "extreme times require extreme measures".. really? maybe extreme paranoia..

Looks like several voted on the bodyguard.. now why would a mild mannered, benevolent mogster type need a body guard, at CHURCH? Some people might not like that term, especially the guy who started the thing.. but twi- wasn't it supposed to be just another CHURCH? At least by strict definition.. I haven't met any mainstream minister who needs a bodyguard close by to "protect his back" while he's "moving da word".. or a guy in a ministerial association, who relied on displaying a handgun, along with a goon leveling a firearm at other clergy to demand "respect".. pretty surreal thought, now, isn't it?

The organization was hardly what it advertised to be.. a nice bible teaching group.. "wanna have fun? woncha come to twig with me..." we were following lunatics.. at least at the top.. lunatics packing heat..

and this was supposed to be a "biblical research teaching and fellowship" organization.. i.e. a "bible" group? it's just kinda hard figuring out what stabbing somebody with a broken broomstick has anything to do with the bible.. must be the "fellowship" part..

I'm almost suprised we didn't have a Jonestown kind of incident at good ole hq.. with the geer readings.. it sounds like it came close..

well.. that's what made some way meetings so "special" it's not JUST a church service.. we're battling devils, to the death ya know.. serious (deluded) business.. the insane part of all this.. some people STILL follow these numbnuts around like they are God in the flesh..

It's just.. packing heat to a church meeting? How anybody can think that's "normal" is beyond me.. Was he so desperately paranoid.. that he thought he needed "protection" because devils would jump in people's heads, and move them to kill him? I kinda agree with excies "evaluation".. he musta been psycho..

I don't have any issues with firearms in general.. my dad taught me how to handle a rifle.. we did some target practice and such.. but he taught me the respect to NEVER point it at anyone, how to walk with it in a non-threatening manner.. I'm thinking more of these mobsters showing up packing heat to what is supposed to be a christian "fellowship".. during the pop meetings.. what would motivate someone to pack heat, in case something might go "awry"? I don't want to take John Juedes thread any more off topic.. If I were to ask Juedes how many times he felt he had to "pack heat" to one of his services, the answer would probably be "zero".. and I would even imagine his church does not participate in firearm safety training courses.. etc, etc.. same for any other reputable group.. what made the way different? what could possibly be in a "minister"'s soul, that he felt compelled to pack heat to a "worship service"? or a "leadership" meeting, and make sure all present KNEW he was packing.. and would not hesitate to use it.. Or train dogs conditioned to attack.. to protect a sleezeball of a mogster.. I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

Thanks.. I modified it, and it looks like it didn't trash the poll.. last time I modified a poll midstream like this I lost a few contributions..

Rock of Ages and larger classes like advanced class and specials would also qualify.

and I also wonder.. if they carried a couple cheap unregistered throwaways to cover cases their revelation that the guy who was a "threat" was packing just didn't pan out.. I would imagine SOMEBODY here knows.. I'm not thinking evil.. with what we DO know.. it's pretty logical question to ask..

I'd just like a little information.. especially if you are aware of any of this regarding the pop meetings, or twi Sunday night services, special limb or region meetings, etc. Corps night at locations would qualify.

It's like.. what's he gonna do.. shoot someone who "slips up" with "tongues with interpretation" or something? I wonder how many other "firearm toting thugs" were present at the same church meeting.. we weren't going to church- it was a meeting for the mob.. yep.. that's "the way it was".. some just can't remember it all I guess..

daggone it.. somebody stole the picture I posted.. well, I'll work on something for you guys for Christmas.. oh, It looks like it came back.. never mind..

for the life of me.. I can't come up with a single "biblical" justification for brandishing a handgun on the way to a "church service".. or putting an UNARMED "threat" to "gawd's ministry"- someone who just happens to know the inside goings on, and just wants to walk away- under ARMED GUARD- until they can figure out "what to do about" the individual.. and all of this.. is just the tip of the iceberg..

they claim to have a "biblical handle" on prophecy, the trinity, "dispensations".. but doesn't the mere fact that they honor and revere jl- tell the real story about the organization? same thing for the geerite organization.. they honor the word of a man who was a pistol toting thug for the mog or worse? he carried a firearm.. to CHURCH.. in case things "got out of hand".. Isn't this at least PARTIALLY troubling to anyone else but me? I'll bet he STILL totes one to meetings.. no church with you, bub..

Where else, in the WORLD- can one find a church, where upon confrontation with documentation about sexual indescretions and worse- that an ELDER or PASTOR is allowed to continue in the organization- on the promise or oath that he will not carry on any more of the "shenanigans"? I should rephrase it.. "what REPUTABLE organization.. can one find these conditions"? I guess being able to trash the trinity fixes EVERYTHING.. That's really "the way, it was"..

There are a lot of reasons why ex-wayers start another clone.. somehow, they just can't "fit in" anywhere else, morally or otherwise.. I think arguing a specific doctrine is just what they proverbially call "window dressing".. my opinion.. jl, by his own (forced) admission of being morally destitute, participating in morally destitute actions, illustrates the point quite well. He can't exactly "fit in" anywhere else that's reputable in the world, now can he? How many others have partaken of the vicster's adulterous poison? We may never know.. but one thing is obvious- with one or two exceptions, not a single one of his hand picked and groomed "men" that I know of "fit in" anywhere either.. Some wolves are rather allergic to sheep skin..

Then again, some had an adult experience with a church, and found themselves too uncomfortable from the moral restraints against rampant sex, alcoholism, and abuse in general.. had to find some place to "scripturally" justify and continue their abhorrent behavior..