Ham

true.. government intervention would change a few things.. but the likelihood is rather slim.. in the face of disaster, we still have bigwigs standing loudly praising the virtues of (supposed) free trade. I'm not against world trade as such.. it's unethical "trade". Without trade, I couldn't enjoy a banana once in a while.. or hazel nuts, coffee.. It's just the unmitigated practice of capitalism on it's quest for the "holy grail".. FREE labor. Not overworked, underpaid.. mistreated.. just free- and it will have it if it can, even at the public costs in terms of welfare, subsidies, tax breaks.. or even labor that pays for the "priviledge" to be there.. the "real" problem with China is.. EVENTUALLY, they will pull out operations for greener pastures.. and what will they leave behind.. basically a destroyed way of life.. it may have been bad before, but the worst is yet to come- they'll leave behind parched lands, unusable water- they won't be able to use it to irrigate farms.. or even climate change that would circumvent any form of agriculture to begin with.

yeah.. life can "suck".. In China, there wouldn't be a phone call to begin with.. they were interviewing some sweatshop workers, asked them "who do you go to when there's a 'problem' with *management*.." they couldn't understand the question.. the concept was so foreign, so non-existent..

maybe not sewage.. it's more a witches brew of phenols.. mercury, chromium and only God knows what else.. I think that Dow might be unfairly targeted for every problem known to man.. they have their own skeletons though. What about the other big chemical company that was in (I think) St. Louis, Michigan? If I'm not mistaken, they are upstream of Dow.. and they were a heavy polluter. They have been out of business for DECADES. The fish here do have a high level of mercury.. and the problem with mercury is cumulative. It goes in the environment, and generally stays there. Was it from Dow, or the other company? Who knows.. but look at this little treat: I can't believe he's letting his dog drink whatever it is.. maybe it isn't his dog.. just what IS in the water? Red food dye? Maybe that's it.. they are making red "designer" water to sell to the elite in europe.. oh yes.. you like fish? Mercury from china and india is now detectable in waters off of New England.. and there is no political entity whose feet to place the blame at.. we are doing this to ourselves..

there is a store here, I haven't checked to see if it's still open.. they are called "Play it Again, Sam". My kids ended up with a couple of baseball gloves from there. they buy, recondition, and resell athletic goods for less than they originally sold. Sure, the original item may have been produced in the far east.. but if it's life can be tripled- that's one-third the amount of sulphur in the air, and less junk in the landfill.. So.. the consumer is happy.. he has a usable, decent product, less than what he could buy a new glove for.. the guy who owns the little shop is happy.. he's just turned more profit on selling a used glove than what he would if he sold overpriced junk.. the environment is at least happier.. Now I'd draw the line SOMEWHERE. Used athletic protection cups? I don't think so.. shoes? I don't know if there are any good options other than just breaking down any buying them.. point is, there is generally a better choice.

Naw.. I've got enough rude comments about *them* there as it is.. I'd like to see this thread evolve into some discussion about how to make the world a little better.. maybe increase a little global self-awareness.. I don't think there's any real political blame to pass around. Conservatives can pollute just as efficiently as Liberals.. besides- it has been shown that at least one rather large political entity cannot be forced to act in favor of it's own common good..

Tomato products are probably the number one staple at my house.. I buy bushels of tomatos in the fall from a local small time farmer. Of these, I have about twenty five or so gallons of tomato product that I canned for the winter, and they'll probably be enough for half of the following year.. sure, he uses a tractor, that uses foreign oil.. but he doesn't need a big truck or trailer to haul his vegies to market- people come to him. For a better price- and there is less pollution produced. Not to mention that he also has a vested interest in his land.. he won't deplete it with overly heavy production. He uses far less pesticides and fertilizer.. so there's less junk leaching off in the ground water.. The tomatos aren't genetically engineered, with spliced in fish dna.. so they are perishable. That's the whole point of preserving them in jars.. it's a better product, and after heating costs to cook them and can, the cost is still radically less than what one would buy the same product in a store (even wally mart) in the dead of winter. I don't can beans, or corn, except to consume a little in the summer. I just don't consume enough yearly to justify the labor and expense putting them away. So I'm happy.. I've saved a considerable amount of money, gotten a product better than can be outright bought, the farmer is happy- he's gotten more profit from his crop than if he were forced to haul to market, or sell to the big corps.. the environment is far happier- everybody is happy. I actually gave him a dollar more per bushel than he asked.. and I'm still way ahead.. I really WANT him "happy".. I'd like to see him around next year..

Now now. I'm not suggesting an "Amish" way of life here.. I think they are in "survival mode" to be honest. Holed up waiting for the end of the world.. I think it's like twi circa 1976.. I don't really object so much about growing their own vegies.. it's just everything else that comes with it.. I don't think the battle is an "us vs. them" scenario.. it's an "us vs. us".. we are the ones who fund the corporations.. every purchase of a useless bauble is another vote of confidence.. all of that sulfur, unburned hydrocarbons and God only knows whatever else that's slowly wafting across the Pacific ocean- technically, it's not *them*, it's US.. we are doing it to ourselves..

Maybe the whole point is: when you get the stimulus check, don't have a bank account or don't want to open one.. go ahead, wally mart will cash it for you.. get in, cash it for a small fee, get your meds.. or ESSENTIAL items, and walk out. Of course after paying for them.. I think a close second to wally world- the dollar stores. They exist to sell trinkets.. little pieces of plastic manufactured under the same conditions.. I can't dictate my personal plan to others.. I might suggest it.. If I pick up ESSENTIAL cleaning supplies.. I'm in and out. No walk down the useless tool aisle.. what am I going to do with another set of screwdrivers.. I've already got a dozen of all makes and sizes.. no trip down the "artsie" trinket aisle.. no gadgets.. the last time I purchased three cheap flashlights.. within six months none were usable. I mean.. they wore out, just sitting on the shelf.. the maglite I have is still fully operational.. and it has one of the LED bulbs in it, a big one.. the bulb cost about seventeen dollars, but the flashlight has the same set of alkaline batteries in it that I originally put in it three years ago.. even with use, they will last over their rated shelf life- which expires in something like 2012. It likely will NEVER go to the landfill. the three cheap ones did..

I still think our destiny is basically in our own hands.. I can't blame or criticize people for living as they must.. the three dollar a month drug plan and all.. if that's what you have to do to live..that's not exactly discretionary spending. I had to pull out of my local drugstore and go to kroger's seven dollar a month plan. I won't go to walmart unless it's the last resort.. if I can't afford to pay the additional four dollars a month to pick up medicine at a place within walking distance, I think I'm in trouble.. it's the spending of discretionary income.. buying little trinkets made in china, india.. Equador..manufactured with sulfur and slave labor.. I can't buy it and keep a clean conscience.. the big question to the class was, given a choice, if you can buy a widget produced for fourteen dollars, vs. one for three dollars, manufactured unethically, which would you choose? Only one person said they'd buy the three dollar version. Simply because that's all they could "afford".. I didn't beat them up over it.. it's your money.. do what you gotta do.. but there really is a different scenario here.. the "widget" isn't exactly ESSENTIAL to life, is it? choice one: buy the fourteen dollar widget.. choice two: buy the three dollar widget... choice three: DON'T BUY THE DAGGONE WIDGET!!! I know.. it's "unamerican" and all..

I dunno.. it very well may be a dog eat dog world.. but isn't that kinda canabalistic? I mean.. if one HAS to do it to survive, that's one thing.. but gorge oneself at the banquet with one's neighbor's flesh .. roughly 400,000 chinese die prematurely yearly due to respiratory failure to pay for the banquet.. and we're not even looking at what's happening in India.. Equador.. Mexico.. one day, America's largest employer very well may be the largest non-voluntary contributor to some form of a global superfund to clean up the mess and make restitution.. it happened here. The local chemical company just dumped raw dioxin contaminated sewage into the river, without giving it a second thought.. now they are paying.. you'd think we'd learned something.. but nooooo.. I

I've actually considered that. well.. if the economy tanks, it's a moot point anyway..

I gave a nice power point presentation in my world politics class last night.. after seeing slides of the towering sulfur laden pollution, sweat shops, and other horrors, I would estimate 28 or 29 out of thirty students will never buy at walmart again.. well, I think they would, provided the big corp chooses to "play nice"..

and there is at least one other here who would drop everything and run back into the mouth of the beast.. provided da way exhibited the illusion that it's like the good old days.. I really think.. if someone "goes back".. and the phone calls and communication stops.. after a few failed attempts to take you with them, and they subsequently avoid you.. maybe they weren't the friend one thought they were.

thanks.. I always thought you were one of the good guys here too Groucho.. I do what I can.. just imagine a small rodent trying to pee out a fire.. now if we had ten million of us working on it.. other than gross, it might just work..

sometimes that's the only options some have.. after thirty years.. I still don't exactly fit anywhere.. I'm not complaining.. things could be worse.. I just hope.. someday, it will find me.. hasn't exactly worked out the other way around..

I think it's around a year old..

If someone got caught, they'd probably disavow any knowledge of it.. scary though isn't it.. all loy boy would have had to say "he's (or she's) an obnoxious god hating faggot.. we oughta do *something*.." and we have at least one individual that would silently go off into the night, and do whatever they do without a blink of conscience.. might be "inuendo", but who's to say it didn't happen as it is.. the only way you'd know was if the person actually got caught.. it's like.. they've broken every other commandment known to God and man.. why stop short of this? at the least to me, it wouldn't take too much of a stretch of my imagination.. it wouldn't exactly suprise me.

I'm looking forward to the next time I get witnessed to.. "wanna come to a nice household fellowship (twig)?" "only if I can pack a taser.." hey, it's a small world.. I just know it will eventually happen..

Aren't Jesuits part of the Roman Catholic Church? would seem a rather large "adversary" for der vey's legal team to take on.. and considering they are doing "business" in Britain.. seems if da waymeisters lost, they'd end up paying ALL legal fees, for both parties.. air fare, exotic meals, miscellaneous expenses.. naw.. that's millet and hot dogs.. budget cuts ya know..

Mainly I think because it was "in house" slander, in front of a selective audience, who were trained to practically believe every word..

Well.. I'm glad somebody else sees a little humor and irony in all of this.. "shoot your way out of a bible meeting".. that's good.. well.. he's the prince of peace.. and if you can't have peace, I guess a piece will suffice..

I've seen what some mother cats do.. one I had would wrap it's front paws around the kitten, well it was a rather large kitten.. and beat the snot out of it with the hind legs.. he ended up being a nice cat though.. I think we found a home for him before he was irreperably damaged.. so this mother cat was violently protective of the babies, and not abusive of the babies themselves? The one cat we had long ago, when it had it's litter.. it would let you handle them. But when you started getting close, she watched your every move.. very intently.. maybe that much care is normal.. but she never would attack us.

I dunno.. have you considered a cat psychiatrist? Other than acting crazy, chasing each other around and causing only a moderate amount of destruction, your kitties counterparts here have been fairly well behaved.. and they are the same, one is pure black, the other is a tuxedo.. they aren't touchy-feely by a long shot.. but I wake up with Samantha sleeping on top of me.. and Salem, the tuxedo, he will crawl up in my lap if I'm not feeling particularly well for one reason or another.. almost like he tries to comfort me.. other than that, I think the only difference between them and tigers or lions is merely the size of the beast.. they exhibit some wild tendancies that I don't think they'll ever get rid of. I've heard cats taken from their mother too soon are just neurotic..

even if one uses the "ends justify the means" defense.. what possible "ends" came out of it to justify this kind of behavior? I really don't think the "ends" will be "a crown of righteousness at the bema" either..

"well.. it was justified.. so da WORD could *live*.." is that so? give me ONE SINGLE CONTRIBUTION all of this has given to society.. other than a few arcane, little known teachings.. other than another raging sycophant with a rather limited audience.. there is basically nothing to show, after twenty five or more years..