Ham

what I wonder.. how many of these guys get an invitation to a nice bible fellowship the next morning.. it's an honest question. it's "how they get them in da way".. at least insinutated in another thread once.. "date and switch".. and the guy ends up getting "undersheherded' by a guy named Bubba or something..

It could merely be a case of wanting to publicly humiliate and ruin them.. seems with a judgment against them PERSONALLY.. their lands, houses and bank accounts would be at his disposal.. I don't think the fellow stiffis could hide behind corporate protection or anything..

What's interesting to me.. this has been going on for TWO YEARS almost.. and the division between the board members obviously predates this for a long time.. so much for the concept of "agree with thine adversary quickly.." jl probably would argue that that's not appropriate.. wrong "administration" or something.. but REALLY.. they are supposedly "salted" "believers", "brethren".. it would seem to me they could ask.. "what would make this right, brother".. 501C rules aside.. I've heard people say there's ALWAYS some way to make it work out on paper, legally. if ALL it is is money.. what's the big deal? I think this situation is indicative of how fleshly and carnal they have become. even old testament days, one couldn't put a bond slave out empty handed. That is effectively what the board did, did it not, or am I not understanding this situation correctly?

yep.. just like the National Geographic special..

Thanks for the offer, but I took O-chem, two semesters of it three years ago. Chem 111 and 112 the year before that.. I know I would have done better in physical chemistry if I didn't wait so long, and I found myself spending more time reviewing old material than studying the new. The university I transferred to said I had to have at least three credits of chemistry there to satisfy a minor requirement. Physical chem just looked like the easiest path at the time.. it's my last chemistry class. No more labs.. no more, unless I go back to do a double major.. so... technically, I need one 300 or 400 level credit, and a one credit math seminar. Next semester I am taking one math class- number theory, three credits, the seminar, and a unix/programming class just for fun.. I already know some C programming, and that's the second half of this class. I grew up on DOS.. how hard can unix be?

They could have an Indian firm manage the switchboard..

actually, the sex practiced in the light of day.. I think its' a throwback to their Simian roots. The arrogance and supposed position of power allowed the top male and female to fornicate right in the light of day.. for everybody else, it was forbidden. It was something I saw on a National Geographic special, years ago..

The last time I brought these kind of scriptures up to a supposed standing, godly believer in the seventies.. I was met with "GROWWWWERRRR, HISSSSSSSSSS.. DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY RIGHTEOUSNESS.." all I'll say is.. be prepared..

I dunno.. my reply would be something like "hearing voices now, are we?" the real "scary" part of it- she probably really BELIEVES, or convinced herself that she's heard this gem of wisdom from the almighty.. looks like the arrogant poison lives on. I wouldn't go.. I think it's like visiting a pit of vipers.. sure they are nice. But they've been taught to sell.. no real "biblical" depth to them, no documentable counselling skills.. they will subtly or not so subtly lavish one with love, praise and affection as "rewards" to slowly come around to their way of thinking.. it's psychology 101.. then comes the conditioning through punishment..

Well.. it wasn't the grade I wanted.. but I passed. Not bad for the old guy who hasn't been in a chemistry class for over three years.. and the physics classes it's based on for over four years.

and the way things are.. in five to ten years, pigeon holed in a "career" of farm work and "running to serve"..

I don't think they charge the "participants".. but it's plenty of free labor. I see they are still advertising for a "believer" with some plumbing skills.. a "believer" who likely cannot expect honest renumeration for said services. "Free" bible teachings provided on sundays as well.. and a plug for someone to donate a vehicle. what this tells me.. they are running a worse slipshod operation than their ancestor did. It's winter, and the "sowers building" still doesn't have functional plumbing.. and still no van. Very poorly, hastily planned.. insufficient resources.. holed up in mississippi in the middle of the winter.. value "st vic's" word like the Word of Gawd.. of COURSE they want people to come to the bible teaching.. put on a charismatic show.. the "participants" of the program will say how "wonderful" everything is, even with *lack* (hint) of abundance.. The whole scenario probably more resembles an old style southern plantation six days a week..

and if you are reading, dear "chef".. I won't say that I don't forgive you for such an atrocity.. but I'm still trying to spit it all out..

Just a wow.. yep.. a diet of balogna, peanut butter. and once the "chef" brought home tripe.

Umm, yes.. And I remember those chairs.. they were old, decrepid.. some falling apart. rusty.. solid METAL. A real "pleasure" for "gawds' people" to sit in, I'm sure, three hours at a shot.. they were the funeral home's LEFTOVERS.. that for some reason, they didn't throw away.. Now what if we couldn't work up a dozen or chairs from the funeral home? Not many more options, other than RENT.. I wonder WHO would have paid.. this organization was so CHEAPSKATE.. I have a few slurs that would describe them, I won't use them here.. but soooooo CHEAP. "The laborerer is worthy of his hire".. not if they have anything to do with it.. they are like capitalism at it's worst.. the absolute cheapest, underhanded, unethical method to get the lowest cost is the ONLY ethic..

I went to the Santa House here with my sweetie's grandkids.. no, I didn't harass them with political or social correctness or anything.. but here we have a couple of kids.. loving parents, a community of support.. not only them, but dozens of families of attentive, loving parents, young children.. and I couldn't get the images out of my mind of kids on the other side of the world.. where parents literally sold them into slavery because they couldn't support them any longer.. what kind of a world are we really building..

later, in the eighties and early nineties we took coffee matters into our own hands.. I took my first plaf class in west virginia in 1974. it was pretty austere.. I was signed up for this thing for almost a year.. paid and all.. the "leadership".. suggested that I and another signee somehow find another five people so that we could run the class.. no kidding.. when I finally got to where a class could run.. it was forty stinking miles away from where I lived.. we commuted.. four nights a week.. to Beckley, WV.. not exactly a "paradise" of sorts.. they ran an audio class, on open reel audio tape. Rich*rd C*nningam was the class coordinator.. and the coffee.. was horrid.. I forgot that part.. the extra chairs from the funeral homes.. yeah, we did that.. they were painted on the bottom with the funeral home's name.. I wonder if any of the students ever looked.. or what they thought.. sheesh.. how cheap can one get.. how many borrowed chairs do seven to ten new students need?

The next exercise in cheapness- branch meetings. I'm certain not all, but the vast majority. Well.. it's time to invite the public, put on the dog.. show people what the ministry has to offer.. at a "bargain" of course. A location would be nice. Well, a free location. If not free.. a community building at a trailer park might suffice for a meeting for forty or so people.. besides, it's CHEAP- if someone in the branch lives in the park. They can get it for maybe twenty or twenty five bucks a night.. same routine, unpaid cigarette butt picker uppers, window cleaners, vacuumers, and chair stringers. A floral display might be appropriate.. show the richness, the pageantry of the event.. the kind of flowers we are talking about.. maybe would cost around $100.00 or so.. let's do it on the CHEAP. Why BUY, when one can make a few phone calls, and work over funeral homes which have no further need for them? They are "kinda' new.. I was "volunteered" to make some of these calls.. the last one.. "ummmm, are you JOKING?" never, never, again..

now you know.. they didn't use 100 % old grounds. about fifty to seventy percent. Sprinkle a few fresh grounds, and a pinch of salt on top.. The instructor didn't see a single dime.. nor the refreshment makers.. nor those who came early to clean the sidewalks and parking lot.. meticulously clean the room.. string chairs.. I think the coffee came out of some kind of branch fund. If I remember correctly, it did NOT come from headquarters.. even the tapes.. I don't think they shipped them ups.. people picked them up from the limb. When vhs was rather archaic, I remember the limb had a machine.. old half inch, commercial tapes and machines.. but after that, you were on your own.. the local area supplied the machines, the televisions, the av equipment.. even at a hundred dollars "donation".. let's say seven new students.. that's just $700.00. If one wanted to run a class in a professional manner.. the money would be gone even before it started.. The only way to make money off of a CHEAP BIBLE class.. turn it into an exercise of cheapness.. with donated labor, stretched coffee, used styrofoam cups.. the quality of the "materials" I got with my first class- paperbacks with glue for bindings.. and a fifteen page binder.. cost? Probably no more than ten bucks.. pretty good "profit" for a "non profit" organization.. they were worse than wallymart cheapness.. at least the poor employess get a (rather small) paycheck..

Well, it wasn't cheapness for EVERYBODY. Some lived in some pretty secluded luxury, in a nice log home in the woods.. all expense trips paid to warm places in the world.. but from the day I got involved.. I observed cheapness that put frugality to shame.. In the first class I took in 1974.. they actually re-used styrofoam coffee cups.. some with lipstick and teeth marks.. and the coffee.. was good the first session. Nice fresh cups.. next session.. it was VERY weak, and had a hint of the taste of salt in it.. the metal chairs looked like they were manufactured in the early fifties.. and it was conducted in a dark, borrowed office.. which for obviously no money changed hands for its use.. the books themselves- cheap. paper back, glued binding, not stitched.. they didn't last two years.. from there it pretty much stayed the same. Cheap. Everything done on less than a shoe-string.. EVERYTHING (almost) was cheap. The tired looking songbooks.. printed, collated, stapled.. no bars in it.. guess they figured we didn't know how to read music or care.. but so second rate. Why couldn't they just publish an honest to god songbook? Like a REAL book? Couldn't afford it? I'm sure people would buy.. maybe they investigated what it would cost to buy real permission to use other people's music.. then there's the stamp issue on another thread..

Nothing but the "best" for "gawd's people".. :biglaugh: I remember the boasting in some kind of historical handout.. how that right after they constructed the mighty "research center" they ran out of room.. not enough room for the thronging masses.. How many thronging masses can you fit in a stinking little NATIONAL HOME? I grew up in one. We had a party with about seventeen or so in it once..

Even the original *historical* BRC was CHEAP.. the lowest price of construction.. required the absolute LEAST amount of "labor" though it was DONATED.. probably the most expensive part of it was pouring the foundation.. un-friggin-believable.. It was a stinking NATIONAL HOME. Prefabricated.. shipped in larger sections.. CHEAP. BARELY a step up from trailer accommodations.. a NATIONAL HOME.. good frigging grief.. came as a KIT.. no intellect required. No measuring.. no cutting..one didn't need even common sense.. simple enough to build, that the likes of uncle howey could do it.. National homes were popular because of the returning soldiers from WWII.. they were SUPPOSED to be a CHEAP, QUICK solution to the housing shortage.. and they weren't intended to last over twenty years.. so.. the most "holy" place on the whole stinking property.. is a NATIONAL HOME..

almost EVERYTHING was "cheap".. the songbooks. Anybody else seemed to have the resources to actually produce a real book.. da way? Noooo. Cut and slash costs.. publish a little stapled, not bound "handout" that they actually CHARGED for.. don't pay anything for publications rights.. I don't think "fair use" exactly applies to wholesale copying, with small changes.. but that didn't stop them from trying. Then having a training program so CHEAP.. that one was indentured to WORK. Yeah.. the "work program".. how many actually got PAID for mucking the pond.. manning the switchboard.. making bless patrol rounds.. so cheap they wouldn't charter a stinking BUS to take participants to lead, etc.. it wasn't about "character building".. I hitchhiked in the early seventies, and I was STILL a doper.. and if you could not survive in the environment of cheapness, and come back in one piece, and ON TIME.. and with the sole twenty bucks you were graciously "blessed" with, for emergencies, you were "screwed".. the only reason one had the cash? There are areas of the country that if one cannot produce evidence of having SOME money.. they will prosecute one for vagrancy. Probably happened once.. and they found it CHEAPER to simply send people with a twenty dollar bill.. I REALLY think it was a ministry of "cheapness".. "what did da word cost YOU?" "not a whole heck of a lot.."

Back in "the day" perhaps we shoulda made the stamp the issue..it was only one small compromise after another. I can already hear the "shoulda could woulda" reply.. but I don't think it fits.. because they won't even get another twenty nine cents out of me, ever again.. or another organization like them. we ate hot dogs and tripe.. and they shook us down for another 29 cents, and a three cent envelope.. and that's just the tip of the iceberg.. the whole organization reeked of cheapness.. I remember an incident.. a WORK CREW.. the guy running it.. he bought them lunch.. about a dozen fifty nine cent burgers from mcdonalds.. and a few fries.. they raked him over the coals.. how DARE he WASTE "god's" money on a ten dollar lunch for a crew of VOLUNTEERS when they could have made twenty-nine cent peanut butter sandwiches.. and they made it sound convincing.. how it's a CRIME to "waste" "god's" money on something so FRIVOLOUS.. the "cheapness" goes on and on.. I remember assignments to go work over local funeral homes for leftover flowers, for meetings.. at the same time, unbknownst to me, those in charge were rolling in bags of cash, living lives of luxury and every whim fulfilled.. it's the same attitude that I see in the big three CEO's.. cut, slash costs, everywhere but "home".. One of the last corps here I knew.. they were FUMING.. absolutey ENRAGED about some kind of new local ordinance.. that would prohibit large meetings in non-commercially zoned neighborhoods.. they had already run numerous meetings.. the house was on a corner.. and the only parking was in a CHUCH about a block and a half away.. yes, they got complaints. Something about way bumper stickers on loads of cars.. honestly, I view the complaints as legitimate. You wouldn't open a shop next door, and expect your neighbor to pay for the water, electricity, gas? What ENRAGED them? Ah.. now we might have to SPEND a little MONEY, to do it "right".. rent a room at holiday inn maybe.. The cheapness in the nineties. and early 2000's.. extended to staffers having to pull their kids from karate, dumping pets God only knows where, no cable tv.. then the no debt issue.. they "encouraged" people to sell their life's dream, of course *we* don't have to say you owe at least ten percent of the proceeds of the sale to da dumb *ministry*, and go rent, and live in cheapness somewhere.. I think it's a ministry of cheapness.. "cheap" classes, "cheap" meetings..

It was pathetic.. I mean, we gave them hundreds and thousands of dollars.. slick vic and company were rich beyond their wildest dreams.. and they STILL hit us up for spare change. like bullies at school trying to shake the last fifty cents out of a kid's pocket.. I'm suprised we didn't have to print up our own blue forms.. we had to hustle every venue one could imagine, to give twi free room and board for branch meetings, classes, etc.. they couldn't offer the consideration of a POSTAGE STAMP.. and figure it in as administrative costs.. they are to "christianity" what walmart is to retail business.. miserable, cheap bastards.. call it whining if you want. I call it indicting..