Ham

what I found "odd" was the inclusion of a survey, asking previous sexual history, if one had homosexual experiences, what they felt about abortion, etc. etc. wherever did these surveys end up? I forget all of the questions.. maybe someone could post them if they know..

now the vicster.. the "ministry" WAS his "day job". It could be choice 2, but I lean more towards the opinion that it in reality was choice number one.. sheesh.. snowstorms nobody else who could be "spiritual" enough to see.. sheesh.

If I don't see the guaranteed RESULTS.. I am FORCED to come to the conclusion that either your claims are: 1. Knowingly false, dishonest, and a scam.. 2. Delusional. I don't think this is your "day job".. so I would eliminate choice number one..

Sounds like typical way speak.. answer a difficult question with another question.. I'm not the one making the claims. The burden of proof lies within the responsibilities of the one making the claim.

as far as the class goes.. I think like the perpetual machine, it's a waste of time arguing with the designer (or adherent) that there are "errors" involved.. it's the whole CONCEPT that's fouled up..

if the standard is "golly, I saw SNOW.." I must be the "greatest".. I saw snow once, in JUNE.. I live in Michigan..

The class seems to be a lot like a design for a perpetual motion machine.. one invests time, money, lots more time and money.. puts it under just the right conditions.. tinkers with it endlessly to match the "accuracy" of the diagram.. and it STILL does not work.. to date, not a one of these machines has produced as much as a micro watt in terms of net gain of energy.. not a single designer of one of these systems has EVER produced any physics that he (or she) didn't have to "back up on".. the "results" have to be REPEATABLE, and tangible. In fact, it must work EVERY SINGLE TIME. Imaginary or dreamed snow storms need not apply for the position..

I'd like to see one honest to God, tangible (opposite of abstract) RESULT "brought to the table" as well.. The "results" seem just a fleeting and as abstract as herr vicster's snow storm..

Now I do happen to be a scientist as well.. and do not find fault with the "benefits" of the meter. But looking at reality.. it is a man-made CONCEPT. And it is very abstract. One can have a meter of yarn, or fabric, or of wire, or of (fill in the blank). Useful? Absolutely. Though the meter is based in the abstract, it has very evident real world usefulness and relevance. The vicster's snowstorm? It is likewise a man made concept.. a self-proclaimed "rule" from the mouth of the one being "measured".. whether originating from the delusion or outright dishonesty from the mind of the originator of the story.. it measures a crooked life of plagiarism, abuse, alcoholism and sexual immorality with a rather arbitrary ruler.. if we start measuring "men's" "ministries" with snowstorms and such, I think we are beginning to go from the abstract, to the bizarre.

"lining up" one's life with pfal.. is like trying to draw a straight line with a crooked ruler.. actually, it wouldn't. The world got along ok for a long long time, long before anyone even dreamed of the concept of the meter. the sun still appeared in the morning sky.. tides still went in, and out.. crops still managed to be planted, and harvested.. geese still migrated.. penguins marched.. people still figured out how to reproduce..

I read it probably three or four times through.. I agree with Socks.. it was an EASY read. even the stuff that herr vicster didn't bother to elaborate on.. the dumbass limb coordinator here (long ago) forbad people to even own a companion bible.. it was above his "scholarship".. and he was the ABSOLUTE BEST the vicster himself "trained".. too many "inconsistencies" to explain.. like the gross plagiarism of his "master" I suppose..

You mean something like this? at least this is harmless, amusing, or only slightly annoying, according to one's particular disposition. Troubling? No.... I'd chalk it up to "mass hysteria"..

Maybe he can't go beyond what he was taught.. I mean, in way terms, if that's "honest" research and all.. stuck in a loop somewhere between premise and conclusion.. isn't that kind of "captivated" in one's thinking? Cauterized on both ends by an irrational belief of dire consequences upon abandoning either premise or conclusion..

and what was the *greatest* ancient language development.. the little IBM selectric typeball with Aramaic characters on it.. kinda archaic now, isn't it? big stinking deal.. it's far less than a footnote to a footnote in the greater scheme of things.. kinda like having some guy reciting aramaic text, recorded on a betamax tape..

and if I may add.. having two or three folks on staff, tutored by Dr. Voobus himself.. didn't make his "research" "ministry" an unquestionable source on the merits of ancient biblical languages, either..

I think this brings us to the crux of the matter.. vp was NOT a "scholar". he didn't "research" like a scholar.. he didn't document sources like a scholar.. his sexual and alcoholic proclivities precluded any kind of legitimate claim to "scholarship".. could he read, and understand at least part of what he read? Yes. Does, or did that make him a scholar? No. Most of us have left the cornfield huckster light years behind us..

Dot, I say this sincerely.. if you should come across a soul who actually loves and cares for who you are.. opens the door for you.. maybe even acts kinda flaky.. I hope you don't reject the guy just because he's NICE. There are actually SOME of us in existence here who don't try to use "niceness" to control people..

I tend to think more that he gave it a Boris Badenov kind of resuscitation- "out with the good, in with the bad, out with the good, in with the bad.." filtered allright.. filtered out "evil" doctrines, like those forbidding adultery and fornication, drunkenness..

so much of the last part of that book was just a cut and paste from Bullinger.. the four crucified, day Jesus Christ died.. the three days and three nights.. not a single footnote referencing Bullinger.. the only thing "original" was "the cry of triumph".. oh.. I forgot.. that was Lamsa's work..

other gems of "research" included the supposed difference between throughly and thoroughly..

Well.. he's the best woodsmith I know of.. with that old fashioned hammer, I'd imagine he could reduce said window to it's appropriate parts in no time at all..

"we have our BEST PEOPLE (wood)working on it.."

So the big question: what happened to the window? Was it sold at auction to "grace" somone's otherwise drab kitchen? Sent to the landfill? Or.. held hostage at a secure storage facility deep in way world?

and further, why no reference to what and where these "manuscripts" he refers to? very very little "detail" for a "research" publication.. I remember him talking about the *great* significance of the "research" of da way in Aramaic and all.. why no or little details regarding these "fantastic" discoveries in foreign languages? What do they think they actually FOUND that no one else in the world found, or had access to? I guess it looked scholarly.. walked scholarly, but at the end of the day, it just ended up being a pitiful second-rate cult..