Ham

and these guys think they are actually doing people a FAVOR opening up another shop, and just leaving the old baggage behind? sorry.. it's just not that easy.. do they REALLY think they can circumvent a real *show* of public repentance and HARD WORK? Or do they think just "moving da word" "covers" a multitude of sins? Yeah.. that's it. That makes everything *OK*.. I guess.

and from reading his little bio on his site, I would have to come to the same conclusion.. now.. I'm not "da man with a *ministry* " here.. I'm not trying to sell anything.. not looking for followers, people to send tapes or cds to, take my classes, etc. etc.. why shoud *I* have to chase HIM down? wouldn't one think that "da man with a *ministry*" would not want to leave that kind of doubt in people's minds? I mean.. it's not MY reputation here..

at least SOME people in the world are consistent..

Anybody who is thankful to the "founder" of a religion.. a false prophet at the best, abusive, alcoholic sex maniac and false prophet at the worst.. even today.. words can't describe my contempt here..

I don't say this lightly.. but.. didn't he end up succumbing to the same disease as pa?

what a good point..

his WEBSITE seems too general. "I was part of the problem.." as in? there is at least one documented fallacy in that statement.. can you spot it? the other possibly is "I don't think I would have lived to see thirty".. I think maybe more "accurately".. "I was CONVINCED that without herr vicster's and ministry's 'goodness' I woudn't have lived to see thirty".. who convinced him? It was a tired old story floating around.. even the character who introduced me to the ministry made the same claim. Of course, he wasn't near thirty at the time.. but like you said.. "vincy" didn't PERSONALLY do me any wrong.. these are just my impressions, after perusing his internet site.. and adding Juedes comments, and others.. just from my own opinion and reflection.. I'd say he never really "came clean" as to his involvement and the ramifications of his involvement in da way..

I'm not entirely impressed with the "I was part of the problem" admission.. that was after pressure from Juedes, and others.. what in God's name, are you NOW doing any different? Just take vic's old jalopy.. paint it another shade of off color green? it's just a little question. Embroiled once again, in a fringe, unacredited "college", organization.. of sorts. It didn't "work" the first time around.. what technically is really different?

all of this "discussion" doesn't change much of the facts though.. we have an (apparently) recalcitrant, unrepentant vp bootlicker who, in lieu of "straightening things out" (as if they even could be..) just moving on to another flock.. I'd LIKE to believe different.. but the facts don't quite bear that out..

I can't imagine anybody selling his "work".. even posthumously.. I'd imagine.. if the lord came back, the red faced person in "possession" of this stolen merchandise.. "*ahem*.. really *officer*.. I was just holding it... yeah, that was it.. I was just holding it for a *friend*.. besides, its all the same color and all.."

maybe the only "original" thing he did.. make sure he spray painted it with cheap paint, all the same color.. that gawd awful green.. must have bought it by the ton.. they still use it, on their website..

So in essence.. he ran a "bible" chop shop.. instead of a transmission from a 47 chevy, a radiator from a 52 ford.. it was a class in 1952 or so in canada.. bible "helps" from a guy long dead.. oh yeah.. the product is an "original" alright..

hmm. so they are stuck in the land of loy.. considering they have ears here to distill every bit of "truth" from the "devil's heel" .. I guess it makes sense.. have at it fellas..

well, there's one born every minute they say.

What I wonder.. what do they THINK when they read this stuff here.. and they KNOW it's an accurate assessment .. or are they beyond that.. thinking, that is..

except.. Lynn, geer, to*nsend, etc. etc.. despite first hand knowledge of his true character, they still revere the vicster's "holy" name.. still think it (da way) was the most SIGNIFICANT stronghold of "truth" due to his mighty holiness, vicster I.. you tell me.. if that's not confessing him as lord, it's a darn close second..

or to be "politically correct".. have a resume, that wouldn't get them a job as an unskilled, menial servitor.. don't get me wrong. I've done that kind of work before..

and I think it's a pathetic existence.. I mean.. could you imagine if they ran for public office? That'd make the little "grilling" they get here look like an innocent tea party.. But really.. no REAL job skills.. no REAL education.. no REAL credentials.. a "resume" of abuses and such that wouldn't get them a job as a janitor.. but all they REALLY know.. is how to move their mouths.. better sound pretty convincing..

if proverbs is right.. they are wounded, dishonored and stained.. and it just can't be rinsed off or something..

what I wonder.. are these guys so naive as to think that this kind of tainted past would not come back to bite them in the a**? sexual "indescretions".. abusive behavior.. etc. etc.. my opinion.. they are married to it.. and unlike vic's assertion.. it really isn't "available" to believe sufficiently to have the past covered up, where even da debil can't get to it..

I don't see for such a small, eroding, second rate organization.. why they think it is so important, not to spy on employees, or ex-employees as such, but ex-volunteers? Everything that's needs to be said basically has already been said. There are new faces, new accounts at times, but they only corroborate what people already know.. so what's the big deal? Nothing technically libelous or slanderous has been written.. just personal accounts. And there are no corporate secrets here to be stolen.. nothing worth anything, at least in terms of dollars and cents.. they trashed their own reputation long ago.. I would imagine, the characters who monitor this site, it isn't their "day job" at hq or other places.. they probably have to clean oil spots up in the parking lots from old wowmobiles.. pick up litter cast out of the windows of locals driving by.. and the like, on the way to "work".. only two things make sense to me: either they know of atrocities undreamed of here, and they don't want rosie to get any suprises.. or they just went "funny" in the head.. or both..

hard to believe, but I guess she was somebody's baby, once..

sounds like you are describing "da word like it hasn't been known since the first century"..

Everything was "perfect" once. The whole "trick" is to put it all back in the box..

I'll say what gave me a CLUE.. I was at headquarters, sometime close to when I left.. and I saw a person on staff I knew for years.. I said "you must be so BLESSED to be here.." and the person noticeably rolled their eyes up into their head.. that really got my attention.. unfortunately, the person is still there... last I knew.