Ham

Hey.. we're a movin.. we're a movin.. didn't even ask how high to jump..

Your minions shall join my minions.. My staff is assembled, waiting for briefing.

I accept your kind offer of employment. I will proudly lead my minions *ahem* the great army into battle..

maybe one needs to define exactly what that concept is.. Maybe this concept is to abandon ones critical thinking and reasoning skills, hold onto an arcane doctrine or practice, in spite of ones own senses, education, upbringing and good judgement. just because herr vicmeister or someone else said it, or repeated it until it sounded believable. All the while, ignoring or denigrating logical debate and putting fingers in ones ears and crying "nya nya nya, I can't HEARRRRR YOUUUUU". I think that's what it is.. am I close? or is it more simply a reference to a suject of the early sixties, where one consumed a cup of this stuff, and shortly "went out of their mind"? maybe after a cup of it.. one can see babies in bathwater, everwhere.. except the rainbow colored babies have a beard..

I will add.. "encouraging and thriving on the unthinking adulation that a REALLY REALLY BAD (which very well might be an honest assessment) reputation can bring them.." yeah.. its not "them", and the "attack" can't be from gawd.. they are arrogant enough to think an attack (or even just a plain honest inquiry) on them is an attack on God himself.. no amount of etiquette, or deodorant I know of can cover the reek of this deep seated arrogance..

awwww. now there are only four. Congratulations. Usually I leave my multi-thousandth posts somewhere in just plain silly..

I could be wrong, but the website looks like the aftermath of some kind of civil war..

Yep.. all the while the "elders" are in some smoke filled back room, downing shots of Drambuie and Schnapps, eating pickled pigs feet, and planning to take over the world.. what is "interesting".. I looked over cff's website.. there is a noticable absence of any link or reference to sowers and such.. and the fellow-laborers page has practically no reference to v2p2. Their history of him leaves him running a "twig" in his old home town.. methinks MAYBE somebody "woke up" in the organization?

I have a really, really bad feeling and suspicion.. I'll have to check on it..

Not just that.. but isn't it LAME? Where's the "boldness", in him or in the *wonderful* administrators of the program? Lame, and pathetic.. they won't visit anywhere, it seems, where their arrogance just might be challenged.. anything that is said, is likely only to a controlled audience. I really think, When the old man, mac and the few other "old timers".. whoever they may be are gone, this little venture will turn into a wierwille brothers (and cousins) club.. there will be a whole family of numbnuts who can't be voted off.. if it ever makes it that far. why they want to sow that kind of corruption in their own family is beyond me..

Congratulations Act2. Have you completed any other basick kind of courses like english 111/112? A word of warning.. if you want to go on to a bachellor's program, I'd make sure the credits will transfer..

Awww.. isn't he cute?

Then look at the stiffi's.. they started their organization, on the basis of the worst arrogance that had ever embodied the way.. didn't sit around and read their bibles and stuff for a few years.. "we've left Egypt, and WE've got the GOLD...." and it got worse.. "personal prophecy" and all.. embracing the austerity of momentus..

and the worst part is, this is where they start. It took the vicster a number of years to develop this kind of harshness in the organization. And where he failed, loy picked up the cause.. these guys are starting their their little organization at one of the worse levels of corruption in da way's history. The sowers grad kid.. after nine months of browbeating acknowledged he didn't like the rules, that it wasn't exactly a pleasurable experience, but somehow da "manogawd" is not to be questioned, but defended at all costs.. practically. I wonder about the other three..

Just when you thought the beast breathed its last breath.. there it is again.. Its not twi so much anymore, I don't think. Its its spawn.. organizations who embrace the same theology, arrogance, tiered organizational structure, practical methods of beating submission and subservience into the lower tier, unchallengeable authority for those on top, and the like. Particular beliefs do not really bother me. Its the other issues they inherited from the mother organization. And they think twi was a good thing, that just went "sour" when the "bad people" came along.. I think ANY organization, who produces trainees who sing the praises of a "great manogawd" who happens to be a under thirty year old, unmarried (probably still) inexperienced still sopping wet behind the ears KID.. qualifies as dangerous. They inherit the arrogance of vic I, that one can just read the bible, and PRESUME to be "God's Spokesman".. As far as the way itself, I think they are hobbled, damaged, and even if they repent in sack-cloth and ashes, likely will not recover.. so the discussion isn't so much about them any more, at least in my opinion. I think it is highly relevant addressing it's spawn.. using the same tools, trying to produce different results..

Just so I get the wording correct here.. he confronted the vicster, who was at the time rambling on about demanding accountability and putting "teeth" in the "love of god", vic I hissing about how the "love of god" doesn't work.. hafta do something drastic to people.. I don't think there is anybody left in that organization who would have an ounce of objectivity, at least as regards this little adventure in the swamp. I don't think there is a competent "body" or "church" to even work with here..

I can almost see him saying "I'll be stone cold dead before this happens again.." say whatever negative you would like about him.. he did confront gramps on putting some kind of austerity and accountability (teeth) into the love of God.. and what do you particular set of morons do..

And to the board.. the only one I'd remotely consider in your "support group" who I'd trust to launch any kind of inquiry.. is dead.. and you waited what.. about a month so he'd be cold in the ground, before you did your official ground breaking..

wowser.. maybe this existence is a cosmic five second "time out".. sheesh..we came from perfection.. and in any fundamental belief, this is true.. I watched my cat play with a small blue toy mouse today.. she would toss it, hide it.. and pretend to discover it anew in play.. maybe we are the same..

and.. the main reason I did not go through your "support group".. I don't think your aunt should have to relive this kind of bull crap..I will never bring matters to that.. though you might.. you're on your own fella..

So after the great "training".. you've got one "graduate" that's confused.. but still sold (somewhat) on your product.. 1. Didn't like the "rules" 2. Admits it wasn't "perfect" 3. Learned "something".. but cannot exactly verbalise what "it" is.. 4. Calls a largely unproven youth a "great man of god".. and doesn't really exactly know why.. that's twenty five percent of the results that we know, of your program.. of everything he posts.. the only thing he is really solid on.. he considers a young, unproven youth as a "great man of god". was that the entire aim of the "training"? well, just one more question to put in queue..

A "real" organization would have someone responsible to respond to this kind of public inquiry.. long before it got "out of hand".. now you've got hundreds of issues to address.. to show not to me, though that would be nice.. but to yourself.. that your organization is worth even a grain of salt..

And I'll add.. what is the sowers bylaws or ethics regarding sexual relations between staff and "students"..? is it ok for the spiritually "mature"? or is it another way for a "manogawd" to be able to "minister" to the group.. like gramps said, an area for a "manogawd" to "lighten up" in.. or is it.. what? Can you honestly say, "wrong on all counts"? or is that too much "legalism" to yoke a blood sucking sycophant with? Can you just say ANYTHING? Note: this is not an accusation. It is a question.. I would have much rather have preferred a discrete simple personal answer.. but now its long past that.. like the original question, what are you doing that is any bit different from the old "ministry".. These really should not be "hard questions".. if they are that hard.. I've made it easy.. try multiple choice.. I've made it as easy as it can possibly be.. If you don't like inquiry, you are in the wrong business, bub..

I've seen people "believe" for the "required donation" for pfal. Checked the checking account balance.. "miraculously" there was about a hundred and fifty extra bucks.. cashed out the $100 for the class.. and inside of two weeks, the couple of straggling checks made it to the bank.. kinda like "walking out on a limb" with "believing".. and sawing the limb off..