Ham

Just doesn't make sense to me.. how a young kid, eighteen years old or so.. can have a $90,000 dollar car (in today's terms) with a personalized license plate.. and pa apparently lives on "need basis".. gave it all to the ministry.. must have hoed a LOT of beans.. next question (not accusation by any means..) Did you at ANY TIME accept or request sexual favors, based on being the "son of the guy who runs this organization"? I personally saw you get away with a tank of gas.. and you seemed rather "practiced" in your presentation about how you were the son of the great one.. how much further did this kind of behavior continue? Just put the question in queue. Maybe just answer it to yourself..

Yeah.. the privileges seemed extended to family members, friends.. but I understand that the sub-ordinates sometimes got "hand me downs". it is documented here somewhere that they had a pecking order as far as passing women along.. vic, then uncle howie, then.. whoever.. I hope they didn't do that among family members. It would be kinda sick.. but I have at least one suspicion..

Yep.. interesting that it was half of the "cult" of socialism, as some call it.. from each, according to his ability.. and what purpose do these "princes" fulfil? Well.. I guess they are supposed to make war. Protect us from debils, or trinitarians, or spiritualists and such.. there is no real enemy, so they make one up. sounds kinds Machiavellian doesn't it?

was he picked on in school? Or just an average kid.. or a bully? Did pa go to bat for him every time he was insulted or ignored? how does he feel about his little corps grad certificate being worth less than a roll of toilet paper? In the real world, that is? how does he feel being usurped by rosie, a WOMAN, as arrogant as he? Still enraged? Use her picture as a dart board or target practice? How does he feel about a WOMAN.. his uncle's widow being appointed as some kind of head over the wienerville family by rosie? how does he feel about women, in general? Is he married, divorced, widowed.. single? If separated, why, and what happened to spouse? Most of the above questions apply to v2p2 as well. I'd modify the last question though.. isn't an "elder" or "overseer" biblically supposed to be a family man? i.e. married, have raised loving productive children, have a few life experiences? Why the exception here? I think its the "royalty" issue again.. I think these are fair questions..

What were his high school days like in the seventies? Did he take the finely manicured and polished boat to school? Or did he stand out on wienerville road and wait for the bus on cold winter mornings with the other kids? Did he have any real friends? Or was he a loaner? Involved in sports? If so, could he perform, on a team, without being mr big, son of he who invented the hook shot? Could he function in the real world where pa's name didn't mean spit? "hi.. I'm a sonofavic. I'd like a cup of coffee.." "that'l be a buck fifty five..like the rest.. now wait your turn.." did he ever get COMFORTABLE with that concept? Based on my first and following impressions: I would say no.

I wonder what it was like to go through the same corps with him.. I think he graduated from pa's miracle program.. did he have to hitch-hike to lead with only twenty bucks in his pocket? Or did he take the big boat? Did he even HAVE to go to lead? were the ream sessions "modified" in his presence? was he over others in work details? Or did he muck the pond at the barking command of some other numbnuts? Did he have to beg and grovel at the feet of local "believers" to get his sponsorship? Write letters? Or was tuition waived? when he was an "employee" of da ministry, what did he exactly DO? Have a nice desk, a nice office? Or did he crawl under oil spewing wowmobiles? I guess what I am asking: and this is INQUIRY, not an accusation: maybe someone who went through the program at the same time could answer the question- What purpose did his corps experience fulfil? Did he actually learn how to DO something, or were they just training him to be an arrogant buffoon?

no, it wasn't gramps or uncles car. It was a big boat.. nice at that. If I remember correctly his initials were on the license plate.. I know.. I just MUST be thinking evil.. he probably got it from hoeing beans..

I think the gas incident is very relevant to this day.. there were likely a few hundred "believers" who needed that tank of gas more than he.. what ENTITLED him to MINISTRY property, above all the others? Didn't he have a few bucks in his pocket to PAY for a few conveniences like every one else? This may be a rather small matter, but he was a preacher's kid, using his dad's name like a credit card.. I wonder what else he charged.. bringing this back to the sowers issue.. it's just another question about those who run the thing. Too many questions, too many unresolved issues. And they date back to the early seventies.

Heh. maybe so Frank. I was only being sarcastic. But the arrogance lives on.. as nasty as rosie might be, I can kinda see how she might want to drum that kind of arrogance out of da "ministry".. no room for two like her. I think the "specialness" of the family.. and all drove her NUTS. Sure, call her an opportunist.. and she likely had to kiss vic's "royal" rear in ways we may never know.. along comes junior with the same kind of arrogance.. maybe he just brought back a few bad memories.. I'm not saying I agree with her.. I just am saying I can understand it.. I don't know if it is genetic or learned behavior. In either case, I've observed the same arrogance in v2p2.. doesn't have time for anyone who doesn't agree with him.. calls gramps his "hero".. accepts fawning and worship from numb brained followers i.e. "whatever you say, he is a GREAT MANOGAWD.." hasn't even hit thirty yet. who do they really think they are? Royalty? Entitled to a high place, over the church body? I kinda thought there isn't supposed to be "royalty" or "lords" over God's heritage..

It wasn't Don. It was the baby of the family.. sorry if I've been so cryptic.. but whatever amazing (?) things that have been done with that car, I'd like to hear it.. :)

I dunno. Are you sure that is the actual cast? With the long hair and big eyes, Wally kinda looks like an acid head.. not that that is a bad thing or something.. Just ignore me. Maybe I'm interjecting too much sixties into the fifties..

coulda been.. I thought it looked like one of those stupid cars people put horns on the hood.. yeah that was probably it.. friggin jackasses.. heh.. don't they think there are those of us sent to observe this kind of moronic nonsense, for one reason or another? the nice thing about the internet.. we get to compare notes.. it is a pleasant surprise of sorts..

:)

the "instructions" were.. *mrs* or *mr* owens.. let them have all the gas they want.. watch out for the way production people. they will try to sell you their soul.. to con you out of a tank of gas. they are off the list. this one particular character.. was not on or off the list. I asked him why he should have the gas.. "Huuumph.. I'm the son of the guy who runs this thing.." go ahead fella.. but you pay the price.. friggin moron.. hey.. what can I say.. he went ahead and filled up.. today.. I cash in..

Ha.. yep.. sold the lowly squirrel said soul and heritage for one stinking tank of gas.. pa was otherwise busy with a grandiose teaching on Hebrews 11.. maybe the kid just wanted a little gas for the big car to tool around to get "lucky" or something.. you know.. a little road trip to St. Mary's or something.. heh the little fruitcake was every bit as arrogant then.. his heritage won't buy him a stinking cup of coffee here now..

let me give you a clue. Rock of Ages.. 1977..

you know.. sometimes that is the best one can do. In a lot of situations or relationships.. the only times I can think I have said the wrong thing, was in situations that I really thought (in twi terms) that I was convinced that I HAD to.. If you have someone non-confrontational.. I'd say.. "be blessed".. maybe you have someone with half a brain at least..

Ah yes.. "busy".. a busy "worker".. working for what? I was lucky. After I left or rather chose not to submit to stupidity (i.e. I'll think about it and get back to you. yeah, that's it..) no offshoot leader had my phone number.. maybe I was "lucky"..

How old does this make you feel.. well, not TOO old. I think *they* are likely 20 + years older than myself.. Give me 20 years if I live that long Ron, and I'll give you a report. That is, if you live that long as well.. well.. hope you do anyway.. *live long and prosper*..

Jiminy.. you both didn't get it right. Sometimes, you have to put "unbelievers" outside of the region, if not the whole stinking country.. diabolical threats to "community believing" and all you know..

The problem is, you aren't starting at the fundamentals. You know, the not so hard to document.. "thus sayeth the lard, the sun will rise yet another day.." in about fourteen hours here, anyway..

Its easier to count the failed "prophecies" keep trying fellas.. one of them may work out ok someday..

maybe the recipe for snake oil was more appropriate, with the ingredients he had at the moment..

suurrre. Lotsa things.. even as we speak, the Pope in full dress is parked out of Boston Harbor, conversing with his staff and making terms with the locals to pull off a new inquisition..