Ham

But as far as interacting with ex-way, can you honestly call them friends? I'm also thinking of old "leadership". A general observation is that they do not have any real friends. Many have an audience. They have a microphone. Other than occasional nods and amens from the audience, there is no exchange, no dialogue.. maybe some in the audience like it that way, I dunno. The only thing personal I can remember about the minister in the church that I grew up in, is that he was long winded. Same for F*nnegan, C*mmins.. Tow*send.. I remember more from what I read in their class syllabus. I could not cite much more than two or three personal facts about any of the above individuals. CD's and youtube make the "relationship" even more impersonal. I suppose that works, if you have a product to sell. Most likely they would not recognize me on the street.. or even pick me out in a line up as somebody they were even aquainted with. Ralphie might. It would not surprise me if he knew me by name if we had a chance encounter. As a class instructor, I almost demand students to engage in dialogue, and to ask questions during lecture time. Usually it is a small group. Twenty, thirty, thirty five. If they are too quiet, sometimes I ask them why. It is far too easy for some to get up front, and simply show everyone that one knows how to do the work, solve the problem. .

If you consider AND to know the love of Christ, you now have five dimensions. But where is the fifth gospel?

I've discovered recently that the vast majority of the old "friends" cannot function socially outside of the four walls that enclose their "home fellowship". I won't say discovered exactly. Its more like.. I found that nothing has changed. Even the promise of free beer won't pry them away.. socially I'm fairly dysfunctional as well. But at least I'm trying a few different things.

I have few exway I've met here that I would consider friends. I have a lot of exway on my friends list on facebook.. a lot of them are the locals here. I tested my hypothesis last weekend. I posted an open invitation to a free chili and wine extravaganza. I think this would be equivalent to a well-stocked bar putting a "free beer" sign out in the street.. How many do you think came? so. If I can't even bribe somebody with the promise of free beer.. I'm not anywhere even near wallowing in self-pity here. I find this to be absolutely fascinating.. I got a few "likes" from friends mostly who are exway, whom I met outside of the ministry. I didn't expect them to drop everything and run from two, three and four states away. The two here who might possibly have come.. work weekends and probably never saw the invitation.. maybe I have achieved the mark and avoid designation among those who attend the offshoots around here.

In my opinion. A life altering experience would be to wake up one morning, or to take one brief glimpse into some kind of blinding light.. and come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING one once believed, is just, plain, wrong. Everything one believes dissolved in some kind of Cosmic Sea of light..

Ha! No kidding.. one of old friends I initiated the reunion. The person claimed to be going through some kind of life altering experience. However. It was not Death. That is what it takes to change.. something, somehow has to die.. but no. Somehow the person was able to incorporate the old beliefs in a new structure.. my question was. How is what you believe now, then, in any way really different? Old wineskins generally cannot contain new wine. the person pretty much ignored what I was saying as nonsense..

I didn't go very far up the ladder. I coordinated a twig here and there.. went wow once. Some "friends" climbed up the ladder, never to be seen again.. I have had one person in the last year look me up on facebook. He did not climb far up the ladder either. Years ago before that, I had somebody in an offshoot look me up to see if I wanted to go to his church..

I'm glad you are more confident than I am.

I have even stranger theories as regards to boundaries. Nothing material in this world is worth fighting over.. you are only fighting over ownership of a momentary illusion..

Maybe in a previous life I was a monster.. and whatever retribution is involved followed me into this life..

The theory is simple. Well.. set aside what is impossible or improbable.. what is left may VERY LIKELY be the true facts.. I'm.. obnoxious. Or unbearable.. or.. not unsanitary or unwashed. I shower daily.. Maybe I snore far too much.. or make far too much noise when I open a bag of chips, or whatever.. I know my jaw is designed so as the noise of my chewing exceeds that of about 90 percent of the population.. In many ways I am socially.. undeveloped. In many ways, I can't set or demand boundaries.. I'm a frigging Hippie. Sometimes I know too much, sometimes I know too little.. There are times I can see people's minds like seeing through water.. pick up with the same conversation we left off with two and a half years previously.. there are other times, for the life of me, I simply cannot remember names. in other words, I think people in the old ministry felt FORCED to be friends, who otherwise would never choose to be. well, that is a description of the theory.

How many of them have actually looked you up within the last ten years? Even if they have been long gone from the organization? Just curious. As far as I am concerned, the count is very close to zero. I have some theories about this..

OH no. You may check out any time you want, but you can never leave. :evildenk:/> :biglaugh:/>

cmon. there is no fear here, or is there.. Ms. preskie ended up with a bag of ..... and it was good s*it. No complaints, no troubles, I hope.. it took me four days to hitch-hike to Saginaw..

One is Hawaiian sell out. Next to that is Beat the Reaper. Welcome to Side Six.

sometimes the Holy People have too much a sense of humor.. crazy as anyone else. Yes, sometimes we have something good to say..

Maybe.. to stab myself in the eye with a fork, like I have always wanted to do.. Hey.. I mean its fun. At least it can be self-entertaining.

Then there is option 4. Harry relied on the material savings from parents on the old farm to support his self-supporting business.

Hmm. Try attempting grad school when you are in your fifties.. and maybe even a second graduate degree.. from experience: the younger crowd can't figure out why you are there.

they call any publicity, a Gift from God.. yeah. any publicity is better than no publicity.. so sad. I received a gift from one of these organizations after raising sufficient hell about them here.. a shattered coffee mug with a shattered inscription. .. ordinarily given to contributors. They only shattered themselves.. If you want to send any more broken contributions, my address is still the same.

I would like to know what the "church" has to say about sowers, stiffi.. cff.. crf.. et al.. in years to come..

Maybe he has accepted his self-imposed "sentence". Of course it assumes a lot.. I think the lack of transparency is mostly a control issue.. one must admit that one, is not.. God.

Apparently the book is always open, except when it is closed.

I only (initially) volunteered for three weeks. Kind of. voluteered.. paid to volunteer. I didn't join the army..

Somehow, we need to define the bigger problem.. unfortunately, most are too blind to see it. Or its. Or whatever it or they are or is.. we have met the enemy in a very small venue. Maybe we are blessed..