Ham

so what WAS.. or IS this "security"? was it an lsd or mescaline inspired vision? like cra*ley having a flashback during some long winded way fellowship or something? I'm really trying to figure this out. where did the "security" lead your master.. he ended up in middle age, tired, bitter, abandoned (at least in his view, if not in reality).. and dreadfully ill..

so where is the "safeness" here? you've FINALLY defined, or admitted that it was NOT a reasonable expectation for married, unmarried, accompanied or not, women, in the *presence* of da vicster.. so what WAS IT? What security? For whom? Why not for ALL under the umbrella of gawd's protection?

and to bring this back to subject here: a DEPRAVED FIEND can EASILY hide behind an illusion of righteousness.. religion seems to be the worst, or perhaps the easiest hiding place..

I STILL have problems.. I expect, and give twenty years worth of trust, at a moment's notice. of course I've gotten a h*ll of a lot better on the first half of the above statement. I can't demand ANYTHING.. of anybody.. but generally, I don't have healthy boundaries. But I seem to be getting a tad bit better.. but isn't that kind of pathetic? I'm what.. 54 years old.. and in a few ways I'm starting to figure it out.. some of the newer generation, will check your credit, your criminal record.. your academic history, your prostrate.. before they will give you a half an ounce of trust.. which is sad in a way. A depraved fiend can hide well behind an impeccable credit rating, criminal history, academic excellence..

me too..

yeah. but what if.. in one moment you found everything you thought you believed, was just wrong.. some might choose to jump in front of the train.. others might just choose to live.. I've asked a couple of posters here the what if question.. and most would choose the first option..

what are we, really.. don't ask that question, unless you can live with the consequences.. I asked it once..

I have had far more than one soul mate.. maybe I'm lucky. even when it was like.. in the night, two ships passing.. No. No sex involved.. weird. Take it as you wish.. I have had far more than one soul mate.. maybe I'm lucky.

Just a friend I met here long ago.. She turned me on to Norah Jones.. listened to a LOT of Joni Mitchell..

I wish our Froggie friend would get her head out of her a** and post something here at the moment.. like everything else I want, it is asking too much..

I dunno. It is kind of like.. there is a drunk Spaniard here.. that I have to define Tomatina for.. his reply.. "oh yes. there are other parties.. I've never been there.." Looking at that video of Joni.. did you know she was stricken with Polio in younger years? looking at that.. you'd never think something like that..

*humbly* I say.. You'mve "missed it".. what does the *evidence* have to do.. and what is evidence? wasn't it given by *somebody*? maybe that is the problem here.. "trust". do you trust what others are saying, or not? why, or why not should you.. sorry. I'm neutral in this. I'm supposed to be some kind of peacemaker. the numbers tell me so.. *humbly* I say.. You'mve "missed it".. what does the *evidence* have to do.. and what is evidence? wasn't it given by *somebody*? maybe that is the problem here.. "trust". do you trust what others are saying, or not? why, or why not should you.. sorry. I'm neutral in this. I'm supposed to be some kind of peacemaker. the numbers tell me so..

Crosby Stills and Nash's version was so.. lame. that isn't entirely the name.. no, they embodied it. when they published it, it had the authors name attached..

I really love her. What is there not to love..

scary thoughts.. the energy, or whatever it is that we are in this existence.. corrupts.. little is better. you can look at it another way.. we are a million points of light.. and it really isn't our fault that light burns.. "by the numbers" I'm supposed to be a peacemaker. I hope I haven't failed miserably.. I'll adopt the role, it it will adopt me..

It reminds me of one of the movies I watched.. no, I won't say it was a favorite. The apes saw the Lawgiver weeping.. and what was the interpretation? "the vision is false.." very, very interesting.. so.. they charged the barrier.. and kicked a**.. are you a warrior.. or are you not.. me, I have had my moments.. other times, I have been too blind to see.. destruction is such a harsh word. I just hope that one can't identify me with THE destroyer.. It's damned nasty. Warriors have to play by rules.. and they seem to be becoming more confined, one decade, on generation after another.. any other thoughts from the participants here?

Now on a personal level. I've had some "fascinating" visions as well. the voices one hears, or the visions one sees.. you have the *moral* (ahem, excuse me.) RIGHT.. to reject them.. how else do us few "nutcases" function in society? Every fleeting thought, every little flash of awareness or lack thereof.. I don't attribute to the Almighty anymore..

so, what was the safety here? was it so.. what's the word.. I remember D*vid C*aley's description of a mescaline induced moment.. hearing the organ of the universe playing, seeing the passengers and crew of a beautiful ship beckoning to him.. and for one reason or another, he couldn't get on board with them.. is that it? A fleeting glimpse of paradise.. or something? I'm really really trying to figure out what it exactly is that you are seeing. C*aley had a vision once too.. that did not exactly accord with the ensuing history: da vicster, much more aged, but still vital.. the adorning crowd.. as he got off of the ship.. is that it?

so where is the safeness here? what is it? I'd really like to know..

I would love safeness here.. honestly.. if we are going to have it (safeness and all) let's HAVE it. if not.. fine. You go your way, I'll go mine.

who is speaking with forked tongue? You offer a shelter from the storm, on one hand. A "safe' PLACE. a safe harbor.. a safe haven. then what is it? the safeness seems to evaporate, the moment it is challenged..

to the non(?) mathematicians.. I don't believe that. You are all mathematicians. Maybe you just don't know it yet.. I was 2 years old, then 3, then 5, 7, 11, 13, 19.. the number have no even divisor. 53 is a big deal. the next time a prime comes is.. 59.

maybe the real question here.. which camp are you really in? It's nice to be with the "in" crowd. with great risk that this will turn "political".. if one has the remote possibility of being a liability.. well, you're not "in". and now.. you are what. fifty five, fifty six, or is that fifty seven.. old age and poverty looms on the horizon.. in *way* terms, what are you worth.. where is all the love now.. ... I'm really not trying to break your "faith".. see.. I have the same "faith". will there be room for me.. well.. somewhere. It just might not be the place that would be described as my first choice.. I'm in my sixteenth prime. What about you? five more years, and I I will be in my 17th prime. some mathematicians count the years of their birth in primes. Otherwise, it might be quite a larger number.. then in mathematical terms.. if I survive past teen years, I must be doing pretty good..

very very interesting.. so he "borrowed" from "the devil." a friend of the devil is a friend of mine.. maybe I'll get some sleep, tonight..

well, finally. *we* know what it is NOT. The victoid's *ministry* was NOT a place where accompanied or unaccompanied, married or unmarried young women were "safe", physically in herr victoid's presence. Hitchhiking "believers" seemed to be offered no real level of divinely provided physical safety on the way to lead.. And no amount of physical safety could be accorded to the rank and file follower either. So nobody was physically "safe"? well, some were "safer".. I'm thinking of the few pistol bearing thugs that happened to have the "reverend" appended to their name. Relatively safe. As long as they didn't start shooting each other at a SNS.. or corps meeting, while herr "doktor" drolled on for hours about the word "of". So we've gotten over THAT little misunderstanding. So if that's not it.. what is it?