Cindy!

Thanks guys!!! She might reply to this thread....get ready to meet one heck of a teenager!!!!

Hello to the butt-pincher from the not-so-little-anymore pinchees!!! Good to see your font, girl!!!!! Miss ya crazy!

Almost the second we left the ex, I have had the kids and I in counseling. Part of the reason for this, besides the trauma they experienced in their young lives, was so that someone objective could help steer me and my kids through what happened with their dad. I did not want my very negative emotions regarding him to be something the kids had to deal with. The kids and I set guidelines for how our family would deal with their dad, with our counselor(s)...I would respond factually to questions asked of me (if need be, I would defer those questions until we saw the counselor again so that we could have help sorting through whatever it was). It worked pretty well....and the kids didn't have to deal with emotional tirades from me. Their dad got no such counseling, so his emotional tirades were often and alarming. Yet still....I would do my best to compartmentalize my own feelings and aim for doing what was in the best interest of my kids. For the most part, I succeeded. (as far as most humans could) In fact only one of us is still in counseling....and those visits are down to once a month....soon to end because we have all worked so hard at becoming healthy. Our counselor has commented often on how well we did in such very hard times. I guess I just needed to blow off steam.....I HATE watching my daughter go through this.....but I know she has the tools to deal with it. She and I "checked in" with each other yesterday, she is an impressive young lady. Thanks for letting me blow off some steam!!!!! ps Garth.....LOL

I gotta admit to a quandary here. I mean I am in a masters degree program for Special Education Teacher Certification and Mental Health Counseling. It's a great program, and as you have seen by my recent requests, it generates A LOT of interest, concern, and desire to help. I have dealt with abused kids and teens for years...I've cried and stood up for those kids, more than I can count when they were not or are not adequately protected from harm. I know that I care so much because of what I myself have experienced at the hands of every male in my life before my wonderful Steve! . My four kids have seen more than they should have in this lifetime of those who would use them to achieve their own ends (to get close to me).... verbal promises broken for financial gain (yes, we will tell folks it just didn't work out.....then I'll trash you and your kids and whine when I don't get the money/custody I want), emotional manipulation (I've changed, I'm sorry for all the horrible things I did to you and I'm going to do better by the kids), verbal and physical abuse (don't think this really needs a parenthesis). And most lately....when my daughter emailed her dad's current girlfriend (he is in the middle of his third divorce) to tell her how proud she is of how her father had changed (he'd been making all the right sounds for the last year or so and my daughter had gotten her hopes up....again), her dad called her (on my cell phone) and made her cry. Then the girlfriend emailed her that she had been "misinformed" and should check with the ex-wayfer friends of her dads to get the CORRECT story. Well....my daughter saw that the "change" her dad had made was, in fact, only hiding who he was to get what he wanted. As if that wasn't enough to get my mother juices running..... She also saw that the girlfriend was basically telling her that she had NO IDEA what happened in her own life....and should rely on others (who had spent maybe "twig time" with here) to tell her the TRUE story. Since she had been "misinformed". Gag me. Ya know....I'm great when it comes to dealing with patients and etc....but when they are dissing my own kids.....not so much. I am pretty sure that addressing this with the ex and his girlfriend is pointless....and most likely a waste of my time. But they hurt my babygirl.... My ability to be objective here is impaired. What would you do????

Excellent suggestion, Watered Garden....thanks, we'll do that!!!!! (or at the very lease buy the potted soil)

We !'s are into gardening....every year we each pick what we'd like to grow. Typically we've had tomatoes, jalepenos, spinach, salad mix, carrots, green beans, corn, green onions, watermelon, cucumbers, and lots of herbs like oregano, basil, parsley, sage. In the new house we moved into about a year ago, we tried a garden in the back, but it crashed and burned. JUST found an article in a Family Circle magazine (latest issue) that describes container herb gardens....which got us thinking about container veggie gardens. We also go apple picking every year.....so I have all the equipment to can ANYTHING we grow or pick! Love it, love it, love it!!!

Thanks for the great suggestions! Penguin, I already posted on freecycle, thanks!!!!!

Happy Birthday, Old Dude!!!!!! Much love from the Wall/Hinson clan!!!!

This isn't an assignment from the classes I'm taking, but it IS inspired from them!!! A large part of counseling for younger children (and senior adults, too) involves play therapy: in other words.... crafts, jewelry making, pottery, etc. Does anyone know of a place where I can get craft items in bulk???? You know....ribbons, yarn, fabric, glue, sequins, picture frames, artist paper, decorative scissors, felt, rubber stamps, balloons, wire, pipe cleaners.....ANY and ALL craft stuff. If anyone knows of folks who donate that stuff, that'd be AWESOME!!!!!! A bunch of us (in my masters degree cohort) wanna get stuff together and go into domestic abuse shelters and other public service organizations and volunteer our time to help some kids and some elderly folk. If you don't wanna post here....you can email me at: chindy004@yahoo.com Thanks!!!!!

I am doing a project in my masters degree program that involves a "memory box" . This memory box would hold (on the outside and on the inside) whatever was special to the person being honored. To do this, I have to come up with questions that I would ask someone so that the things that mean the most to them/the person receiving the gift, are included and presented in a caring manner. This could be for a college/high school grad, a parent, child, spouse, loved one who means lots to you, a very special person who has passed on, or anyone you might get a gift like this for. What questions would help you design the perfect memory box???? (this can be favorites like hobbies, sports, career, family inside jokes, movies enjoyed, most loved books/jokes/music, thing that are just silly but make em happy, things that might be classified as a "roast"....or anything you can think of.) I have a week to come up with a questionaire that will appropriately address this assignment...and I just don't want to leave anything out that might matter to someone. (This MAY be used as a therapy tool in real-life counseling if it's good enough) I thought GS would be the PERFECT folks to ask since we are all so very different!!!! Thanks for whatever you can contribute!!!!!!

Me too. I avoided this section of GSC at ALL costs. Until recently. Come on....join in..... My major beef is that I KNEW what should be done or said....but didn't do or say it cuz I thought I'd be wrong or unpopular. Or that I'd prove ungodly. Or that others would see how truly unworthy I REALLY was (whadda crock of cow dung) what's your beef? if folks disagree.....celebrate!!!!!....it's a NEW day!!! I'll go first..... I hate liars and hypocrites...... I've had folks promise me one thing and do another more often that I can tell you.. (once it was just a break-up with a boyfriend....he promised to keep it simple [it just didn't work out.] ....then he turned around and spread a lot of lies around....(he broke a verbal contract..].i'd agreed to pay him money he thought I owed him for helping me, he even itemized it and sent it certified mail..but his breaking of that verbal contract (that we would say it just did not work out...so that noone would feel put in the middle) voided that agreement. And do you know that he never, ever, even after attempts on my part....would discuss it. Sad. These kinds of people are EVERYWHERE.....and they are always dishonest. It's a shame.

I am part scottish....and we have an old saying that I often think of when in the neighborhood of twi or other abusive/uncaring beings....that saying is: Fool me once....shame on YOU. Fool me twice....shame on ME. Nuff said. I am part scottish....and we have an old saying that I often think of when in the neighborhood of twi or other abusive/uncaring beings....that saying is: Fool me once....shame on YOU. Fool me twice....shame on ME. Nuff said. (no offense meant to you lindyhopper in being with your family....you are a wonderful man!)

Yes, I too thought this topic was about degrading women. It's not about jean and john at all (whoever they may be..and I'm not being facitious here...I really don't know who they are) and I saw nothing in these posts that would make the focus about them. I did see a lot of personal info shared by them (which is certainly their own decision to communicate), which invited personal comment. But I still think that this thread is very very needed (so long as each poster understands that any personal info that is made public info....becomes the domain of the public) Otherwise this thread will be distracted and derailed even more. If I mention my marriage to Steve! in a thread, I can logically expect response if there are questions. From what I know of GS folk, most of us know that each marriage/relationship is unique. If it works...it works. However....if it is posted for any eye to read....regardless of whether they agree with your way of life or not...it is not a sin for them to question. If I put my marriage out there, in my own words....and it is a public forum like this one....I would EXPECT questions and lively and intelligent exchanges. I would not be offended by this....since it does not change my marriage ... I would simply deal with it as it came.....or stop sharing details of my married life. I, for one, did not post with jean and john in mind (especially since I do not know who they are or why they take the stance that they do). I posted from my own perspective and opinion. I do not resent disagreement....in fact....I love it!!! I very highly cherish the times I have conversed with educated folk on issues that were very controversial....yet we managed to stay ahead of the "blame game" and had some great fun debating, calling each other on small points of illogic, and generally being rather disruptive to those around us. (three of us would often cause a newcomer to exit the room cuz they thought we were gonna come to blows....what was GREAT was that we all were quite close friends....even though we disagreed on some major issues). In fact....we often would SWITCH sides of a debate...in mid stream (which confused newcomers no end) .... an exercise we valued for keeping us above petty bickering. It was truly FUN!!!!

That's my plan too, TS.....cook til I can't no more!!!! There's even a cooking show by a chef who advocates NOT using a recipe.....It's called Chef at Home...I watch it whenever I can...have a lot on dvr that I haven't watched yet. Love Take Home Chef. too....he is one CUTE aussie!!! But Barefoot Contessa will always be my very favoritest!!!!

Mo says it very very well in this post and in her other posts. In our curent culture, when a wife walks away from a marriage, it is a sin. It does not matter why....no one even ever asks....she is wrong, possessed, tricked by the devil, wanting too much, using the man, over-dramatic....whatever. Folks will believe what they want to believe...and nine times out of ten, it is the man who wails to the high heavens about the "injustice" done to him, how he is a "victim", etc... Yet how many times do we see the woman's side of the story? If she speaks up....whether wife, failed relationship, girlfriend, whatever....if she speaks up she is a "b*tch" an opportunist", a "user", "poisioning others minds". This is not just relegated to twi and it's rather dizzying circles...it is evident in every single walk of life, every forum, and any where where humans interact. Yes, there are very bad stories on both sides, Galen has mentioned quite a few over the years that he knows of first hand. Where guys who serve in our military come home to divorces, just cause they were gone for a while to serve their country. TWI does not have the corner on this market.....they were absolutely prime contributors (I was told when I called my area whateverthehelltheywere in Tallahassee, in 1999....after telling them I was leaving my husband due to abuse to me....and quite recently to one of our kids....that God did not believe in divorce. That was all I had to hear, I answered, "Well, God probably isn't too thrilled with me and my kids getting abused, either.") That was the last I have or will ever speak to them. They are clueless. The world in general contributes to the attitude that women are inferior. My daughters hear it alla time. They come to me saying that so and so called them a "bit*h". My answer to them??? I tell them to reply in the following manner: "You say I'm a b*tch like it's a BAD thing!" :-) Even on GS we've seen it.....men will b*tch and moan about a woman in their lives and GS posters will respond like she is the lowest thing since rat turds....while NEVER hearing the other side. My point???? Human nature. TWI appealed to people who really needed a clear set of procedures for getting in good with God....not a bad thing in and of itself....but detrimental when coupled with some of the narcissistic, toxic, and rather rude m.o's of some of the "leadership". I think Mo said it beautifully when she stated that a man who loves his wife like Christ loves the church is a man who has a wife that KNOWS she is cared about, loved, and respected. No ifs ands or buts. I'm lucky....I have that kind of husband. But I did not know such a man existed until Steve!. Stating that every marriage and relationship in TWI was based on wrong doctrine is the easy way out. What is hard is acknowledging and then really "getting" that the problem with TWI was NOT the bible....it was the "spin" put on the bible to achieve ends that were in NO WAY godly or even approaching the beginning of the recognition of godliness. Yes...each marriage is unique. A arena unto itself as to what works, what doesn't work, and all that jazz. However, the fundamental truth endures....you get out of a relationship EXACTLY what you put into it. Even I, who was in an abusive marriage for 13 years can testify to that. Abuse is wrong....end of sentence. Enduring abuse is so much more than it sounds.....the "victims" go wayyyyy beyond a simple black and white approach of: STAY or LEAVE. As anyone who has studied this subject knows.....it is a myriad of perceptions that have no SIMPLE solution. Being a perpetrator of abuse is also a myriad of perceptions and experiences. I guess what I am saying is that as I get deeper into my masters degree studies of human psychology, I see more and more that those who perpetrate and those who are victims are more to be pited than sensored (to quote the old poem). I have been studying abusers, narcissists, and bi-polars....the more I study the more I see TWI and it's people in a clearer and less emotional light. Don't get me wrong....it is still horribly emotional to deal with...but I am starting to see beyond the emotionalism.....and, bit by bit, into the psychology behind it that explains (but does NOT excuse) it. Dunno if I'm being clear here....hope so.

Cooking. Really!!!!! I find the most difficult recipes I can find and then make em. I am very well known by my husband and children for using a recipe as a "guideline"....I rarely, if ever, follow a recipe exactly. Cooking relaxes me.....I love the challenge of just me and the food and making it taste better than it ever has. My daughter, Kat and I even have challenges. We will find recipes for each others that are almost impossible to make....and challenge each other to make em. My boss at my last middle school used to enjoy asking me about what I had for lunch and how it came about!!! Thank goodness I have a supportive family who indulges my every kitchen gadget!!!!

Mr and Mrs Raf... I was tellin the folks I work with bout your wedding as the ceremony started, about when i figured it ended and when i figured the reception began. (I work at a luxury women's clothing store part time so that I don't hafta pay full price for my clothes)... they were excited, too!!! Hope your wedding day was as wonderful as you helped make Steve and my wedding day!!!! Can't wait to see you two in-person inna few months!!! Congratulations!!!!!! Love, The !'s

Bramble....what a wonderful thing you are doing!!!! There are just not enough people like you. The minor I mentioned was hospitalized for five days. In that time my friend who is a police detective in the jurisdictional town and I talked. We have things in motion that we hope will help. The mom has told the minor that she will be turning custody over to me....I gently cautioned the minor that mom could well be trying to torture her with hope....and then rip it away. She should concentrate on minding her manners, and if/when the mom goes off, keep her wits about her, phone 911 immediately, and stay safe.

Geez that sounds like HUGE fun, Raf!!!! Steve and I are SOOOO upset to miss it...o 'course we're still not ruling out that last minute "miracle money"....we may show up, yet! You are marrying a teacher????? Have you thought this through, Raf???? Teachers are the BEST people I know....and rather crazy...oh wait...what AM I saying??? You'll feel RIGHT at home!!!! Congrats Raf....we KNOW your marriage will be as wonderful as the marriage you helped begin for Steve and I. Either way....Steve and I are THERE to see you and meet your new wifey-poo once you get settled!!! Have an absolutely awesome wedding day, night, etc.... !!!!

We've done the silly string tag thing at Zachary's b'day a few years ago. Had two kids on each team, had 4 teams (could only find four colors), they would tag team to play silly string tag. Then we gave out prizes for best aim, fastest, slowest, messiest, etc... Then we had a make your own pizza time. Dining room table was set up with different toppings, had pre-cooked pizza crusts, so the boys just loaded whatever they wanted on their pizza, then hand it to an adult to be put in the oven. In a few minutes they were eating their own creations! It was SOOO fun to watch em!!! I've also taken a fridge box (empty, of course) made it into the shape, color, etc. of a firetruck (this was when Zach turned 5), had a friend's kid sit inside the "firetruck". I fashioned hoses out of some old yard hoses....when the kids "put their firehoses in the truck" they got little gifts (yo-yo's, etc...) I have a book around here somewhere, unless it got destroyed in the flood we had in our basement with ALL kinds of kid party ideas!!!! You can probably do a book search on amazon.com for children party ideas. It will be worth its weight in gold!!!

DCFS = Department of Children and Family Services

! prayers abound, Mo

As most of you know, in the spring of 2000, I took my four young children (then ages 9,7,6, and 4) and left an abusive 13 year marriage. I got lots of support and encouragement at waydale.com. It helped save my life. But I also got a lot of some very genuine, very timely (lifesavingly so) and very, very hands-on, right where I needed it, day and night, 24/7 help from one person in my Tallahassee, Florida neighborhood that both figuratively and literally saved my life. In the midst of a particularly poignant (read: emotional) time with her, I said to her: " I don't know how to thank you. I don't know what words to use. I don't know what to do. But you have saved me...how can I thank you?" Her simple response was: "Pay it forward, girl. If and when you come into contact with someone who has been through anything similar to what you have been through, and if you are in a place in your life where you are able to....I simply want you to pay it forward. Do with them what helped you. Let someone into your life in whom you see shades (if not a whole, detailed rap sheet) of who you are today and what you have been through." I promised her that I would. I have taken that promise seriously. In the past years since leaving that awful marriage, I have encountered hundreds of students of mine, dozens of fellow educators, about that many friends of my children, and lots of other wonderful (and not so wonderful) individuals. I have made many calls to DCFS on behalf of children who could or would not speak up for themselves (some of those kids were very angry with me), yet each case was proved and dealt with and turned out well for the entire family. OMG....in the last two years, due to the fact that my kids and I are safe, happy, and well loved by Steve! we have been, it seems, to hell and back. I was hospitalized for a week for depression, my youngest child was hospitalized for a month, my second oldest was in a partial hospitalization program for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks again....all at a behavioral health hospital in our area. We hired a lawyer to get our kids what they needed from schools that would not cooperate. I have had my kids and I in counseling of one form or another ever since I left my ex-husband. I KNEW that the abuse against me that they witnessed would not easily be erased. Then my ex turned on my second oldest child....the moment he touched her, I packed our .... and left him. We are all fine now.....our counselors told us it was a very very natural progression. She told me that most cognitive adults realize what they have gone through, exist on survivor mode as long as they need to, and then once they are happy, it erupts like a waiting volcano. My kids and I have been certified by doctors and counselors in excellent shape both physically and mentally. The "believers" in the area did not contact me after that (except for Matilda, who remains one of my major heroes to this day), that was when I totally dropped their warped thinking and belief patterns. For my personal journey, it contained not only anti-depressants (which I am now off of), but also blood pressure and thyroid meds due to the depletion in my system by stress. It is therefore a touch of poetic justice that at the tail end of all of this, I am allowed to 'pay it forward". WHAT a privilege. One of my kids best friends has been having some problems with her rageaholic, narcissitic mother. At the beginning of June, I called DCFS. The mom kicked the DCFS worker out so he had to come back with police. The police were toxic to the daughter/minor (best friend to my kid) Sometimes police can be really, really clueless. Last week, this daughter/minor showed up at my door as a runaway. I know the law, I know my duties as a mandated DCFS reporter, and I also know this minor. She is scared out of her wits. Scared for things a kid her age should not be scared for. I let she and my daughter bond, they needed that time desperately. However, as those in the social service profession know....I HAD to report her presence. Yes, it sucks......but then most of the family law standards work harder to guard the parents rather than the kids. I managed to talk the daughter in to calling DCFS on her own. She wouldn't give her name to them, but she asked them what she should do. (Her parents had kicked her out of the house the night before, threatening to call the police if she did not leave....and then called the police a few hours later to report her as a runaway.) DCFS told her to turn herself in to law enforcement. I drove her over. The officers were wonderful. They kept her mother away from her (her mom admitted to the abuse to the officers) and they put the daughter/minor in my care until DCFS could make a decision. She spent a lot of time asking me questions, I spent that time answering as best I could. She was so scared of her mom that she was shaking and crying most of the time. On her behalf, I went to the Sheriff, the county State Attorney office, put a call into a friend who is a detective in the town she lives, made sure she got medical attention at the hospital for a wrist her mom had damaged , and spent most of the day either on the phone or at the offices of DCFS. Did all I could. With the county sheriff at my back. But....due to paperwork and red tape, she was returned to her mother. (I still cry when I think of that.) A glimmer of hope exists, though. I am in a Masters Degree program for Mental Health Counseling, so I spoke to the DCFS investigator individually. Services will be put in place by DCFS for supervision and counseling. Once DCFS is involved in a family that deep, it won't stop. We are very sad that the daughter had to be returned to her home (though the DCFS investigator DID get her into an evaluation to be in the in-patient ward for adolescents). BUT...we are hopefull that this narcissistic ragaholic will be monitored closely. Can't tell you how many feelings and emotions this brought forward. Especially when the minor was telling me that I am her "guardian angel" and she felt she was "imposing". I gave her the same message that that wonderful person gave me years ago....."I was born to do this. When you are ok and ready, pay it forward. Help someone else. That is all I can ever ask." For the most part....I've seen kids who are just ignored by parents, or to step it up a bit are yelling at their kids and trying to force them to be whatever the parents were not, and....sadly.....we've seen a lot of abuse. Here is my question.....those of you who have teens (and, of course, those who do not)...have you seen anything similar to the rash that we have seen lately?????

I would SO love to see your guys attend some great comics, shows, etc... I have set up an email for folks to make donations and specify where they donate. Is this something that would help, dmiller?????

Love them Blue Collar guys!!! Groucho....I watched some of Lewis Black on youtube.com, he's ok, I think I needta watch more to really appreciate him. But ifn ya wanna see Jeff....here ya go.... just click on the link, it'll take you to youtube.com