markomalley

Wow, Abi, this could open up a huge can of worms....

As with z-shot, the first I heard of it was Waydale.

Oh, silly me...we're obviously looking at son of "Masters of the Word --- Mastering PFAL"

Why is this a 9-page thread?

Thanks for the compliment Sunesis and, again, thanks for bringing that little tidbit of info to light.

One thing that should be pointed out about these far, far right wingnuts whose positions are characterized by the "Spotlight" magazine etc....they are not a homogenous group of automatons. (Automatons, maybe...homogenous, no) There are a number of groups within that segment of society, not all of them share the same beliefs on all issues. Some are white supremecist. Some are white separatist. Some are neo-Nazi. Some are fascist. The thing that characterizes most all of them, though, is the following: - Almost all of them believe that there is a secret government that operates in the shadows, beneath the surface. This government is a world government that is totally out of the control of the people. - Almost all of them are anti-Catholic, anti-Semite, anti-Masonic. They believe that those groups (singularly or in combination) are in control and pull the puppet strings behind the scenes. - Almost all of them believe that there is a catastrophe that is coming in the next several years and that civilization, as we know it, will cease to exist, reducing us to a primative anarchy. So, Sunesis' statements talking about VPW being a subscriber to Spotlight Magazine and OM's/ HCW's statements that lead one to believe that accusations of white supremist beliefs might, actually, be totally congruous. Here's the interesting thing, though (again, for me). Sunesis stated that she saw this Spotlight mag floating around HQ as early as 1971. What if he got involved in that earlier (say the 60s)? Could it be that the origins of the Way Corps had something to do with that involvement? Could it have been a ripoff of the survivalist movement of the 60s and 70s, that pre-dated the militia movement? Here's another thing: If VPW's involvement with this stuff was early enough, could it have, in fact, influenced his theology? extract from, Ritual Baptists, Emotional Baptists extract from, Other Witnesses Both of these extracts came from the "Christian Separatist" site: http://www.christianseparatist.org Coincidental? Yeah, in all likelihood it is. But it is still interesting. Oh, and one other thing: the funniest part of this is that the majority of the conspiracies that the left have espoused regarding Bush the younger are not new -- almost all of them were originated by these right-wing nutjobs a long time ago.

Mr. "H" Are you talking about Ed*th T*mk*? I know I've met her. My daughter's principal. Or are you talking about El*o T*massin*? He ran the bar on the ground floor of the apartment building I lived in while stationed in Italy. Yeah, I've met him too. Why do you ask?

Sunesis, you have no idea how many personal questions you just answered for me. I saw the parallels between what I had seen in TWI and when the militias were in the news during the early 90s. I had heard of "liberty lobby" during that time and saw the connections between "Liberty Lobby," white supremist, neo-nazi, and militias based on my own research on the topic. I thought it particularly curious some of the garbage they spewed out and some of the stuff I'd seen advocated while in TWI. But I thought it was just a matter of being fellow-travellers because of a similar world-view. Thanks to the information you provided, I now can see the direct linkage. OMG. The funny part about all of this was that during the time that all of this was going on, I was in an AF unit where we flew the black helicopters that made all of these folks so paranoid (MH-53s for those who are interested). Thank you very much for your information. You have NO idea how many questions you just answered for me.

They still do that (these days), don't they?? :D--> Isn't that from the Patriot Act?

Garth, you know its pretty bad when you can favorably compare Georgia's progressiveness to someplace else.

Radar: I don't believe I used the words "did time in both states." What I said was, "I actually have had good times in both states." Do I care to elaborate on that? Hmmmmmmm. No, I don't think so. ;)-->

On a lighter note, there is a little joke I frequently heard when I lived in San Antonio over 20 years ago: Question: Why doesn't Texas slip into the Gulf of Mexico? Answer: Because Oklahoma s*cks (Just a joke, folks. I actually have had good times in both states)

Oh, and btw, I LOVE my new power shovel!

Maryland suburbs of DC. And its even more fun to see them drive around here...combine south of the Mason Dixon line with a lot of tourists, foreigners (most from countries with NO snow), and imports from other states (with lotsa SUVs) and you have chaos! There is a saying around here: 4 wheel drive does not equal 4 wheel stop I think of it every time I see a 4WD off the side of the road.

Well, I finally broke down and got a power shovel yesterday. The thought of (again) shoveling a foot of snow from the drive made my back hurt. The strange thing around here is that we have several snows each winter, but there is rarely enough to justify one of those Chicago/Michigan/Upstate NY style snowblowers. But it seems like that is all they sell. I was in luck finding that power shovel (it was the last one in the store), because it is about the right size for the snows we get here. So call me a wimp, but enough is enough.

Got this picture in e-mail recently; I hope you all enjoy it as well:

47 posts, all on one thread, all selling one thing. Seems like a lot of work for a 'drive-by' doesn't it? Most people would just give a sales pitch for their product, leave a URL, and move on. But whatever floats his boat.

HCW: Thank you for your last post. That's all I needed to hear. There are some who have posted on this board who have defended that conduct and who absolutely would either a) turn a blind eye, b) set up "dates," or c) try to get in on the MOG action for themselves. That's why my extreme attitude. Let me buy you a cup of coffee.

HCW, there was no guise there...there were snide on the surface. Look, I don't know who you are nor do i really care. However, I have known some of these folks for quite a while and have seen all of them do a lot of growing and healing. The original point, which, frankly, was not addressed by you yet, is that there was, at a bare minimum (e.g., if not out-and-out rape), an extreme violation of ethical standards by twi clergy, specifically vpw and loy. By suggesting that the victim bore any type of responsibility for the actions of the alleged "professional," you are, in effect, defending that. That defense is, imho, unacceptable. You are dealing with women who have been, if not physically raped, then psychologically raped. Making a comment that suggests that this is in any way their fault is offensive. And warrants an apology. i don't care how many reams of paper you fill with words, you owe them a simple "I'm sorry." Had you been registered for longer than 5 days, you'd know that the vast majority of my posts are in a forum that you can't see (unless you've been permitted it). If you read them, you'd know that i am a very tough debater. I am a pussycat in the publically accessible fora compared to in the mosh pit. The point: I am not intending to fight with you...if i was, you'd know it. I'm just making a declarative statement here. You need to apologize. And don't worry. I won't bother saying it again.

HCW: Would you like a shovel? Surely the dirt under your fingernails have got to be really irritating (from the hole you're digging yourself). A simple apology would be far more appropriate and effective than a dissertation explaining how you feel their pain. Just a little hint.

HCW: Like others, I've kept my mouth shut on this thread. But the above comment goes over the pale. Got some news for you: Just as it is never right for a pshrink to have a "relationship" with a patient, Just as it is never right for a teacher to have a "relationship" with a student, It is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER right for a member of the clergy to have a "relationship" with a person under instruction, under counselling, or in any other kind of relationship. And Just as it would be the pshrink's fault if he accepted the advances of a patient, Just as it would be the teacher's fault if he accepted the advances of a student, I don't care who initiated the relationship and made the moves, it's still the clergy member's responsibility to maintain the professional boundaries where they need to be. I don't care if one of these young girls cornered VPW or LoyBoy, ripped her clothes off, got on her knees, undid his zipper and you know the rest, it is still the fault of VPW or the spandex king. Period. Dot. End of Story. Those two are the MOGFART...they are the ones responsible before God for the well-being of their followers, not the other way around. Look, you can say what you want about India, about how great a guy the forehead was in his youth, you can say whatever you want...if its your opinion or your observations, its not my business to say whether you're lying, deceived, delerious, or telling the objective truth. Its your bit. But when you start blaming the victim for her victim status, that crosses the line. You owe several females on this board a massive apology. As well as one to the men that love them as sisters or otherwise. Warmest Regards, Mark O'Malley

You know, David, I knew there was a reason I didn't return to MN upon my retirement from the Air Force. Thank you for reminding me of that reason.

Does anybody remember looking at that "believer" dating site that was hawked over on "Open" a while back? Wonder if the two are related in any way? (Maybe not directly, but from a similar-type initiative)

It is interesting to me seeing how many's views on both subjects have changed dramatically since leaving TWI. Was it a natural evolution or was it a reaction (a backlash, if you will) to no longer being bound by der Veg?

"I goose stepped for the way for 12 years. I'm not about to do it for Bush or this warped version of conservatism ." I saw this quote over in the 'tacks forum and it made me think. How much of what you CURRENTLY believe is a product of your rejection of TWI? Although aimed at two specific groups, I'd welcome comments from all: First: For those who now lean to the left side of the political spectrum, what was your political alignment (if any) BEFORE you got into TWI? Second: For those who lean toward a non-Christian religious belief now, what was your religious alignment (if any) BEFORE you got into TWI? Please, I am not trying to spill arguments from 'tacks over in this forum. I am simply curious how many maintain beliefs they have developed while in TWI versus how many gone back to where they were at before they went in versus how many have intentionally taken the opposite view versus whatever. Oh, btw, for me: #1: I was pretty much a Reagan Democrat before hand. Afterwards, I was, for a while, an extremist on the right-wing side, and have, over the past 10 years or so, settled into a conservative-libertarian point of view. #2: I was a non-Church going Methodist before hand. From High School, I was a "seeker," exploring around with tons of different religions, but not settling with one until TWI (what a LOUSY choice on my part - LOL)Afterwards, I played with splinter groups for a couple of years. I then became a non-Church going Christian for about 5 years. And then about 5 years ago, I became a Catholic (something I came close to doing during my seeker phase above). I am now considering switching to Byzantine rite btw (not so much a theological difference, but I enjoy their liturgy a whole bunch more).