markomalley

I don't really have that much of a dog in this fight, but one thing to recognize is that people can become repentant. They can recognize the error of their ways and feel some sort of sorrow. I would be very interested to know if ANYBODY interacted with him what his attitude was in that interaction. Because from what I've read here, it appears that he quietly snuck in the back, paid his respects to Mrs. Weirwille, and left quietly. To me that sounds like the mark of a humble person who felt compelled to do the right thing, not the mark of a person who was unrepentant. FWIW

First, you can't blow off the doctrine issues. If you have conflicts with a given church in regards to doctrine, it will surface at some point in time and will cause a major conflict. That time may be weeks, months, or years. But it will come. If you fully subscribe to TWI doctrine in your heart of hearts and are unmovable on it, then that's one thing. If you are willing to acknowledge that traditional orthodox Christianity may have something to offer in their theology and are willing to examine their theology based upon its own merits, rather than comparing where it is in disagreement with the TWI theology, then you need to resolve within yourself that they might be right and you're willing to listen and possibly learn. I say the above because I found myself being offended for years and years going into and out of churches because they taught what I believed was non-Biblical teaching. I had to get myself to the point of understanding that TWI might have been wrong and they might be right. Once I did that, it was a lot easier. The second thing to consider is the liturgy. Are you looking for something that is contemporary and relaxed or something that is traditional and reverent (not that contemporary can't be reverent). Are you looking for something where most of the emphasis is a preacher talking or where the emphasis is on the prayers? Although TWI and offshoots are decidedly non-liturgical, I would encourage you to learn about the liturgical ceremonies used by such churches as the Eastern Orthodox, the Byzantine Catholics, the Copts, High Church Anglicans, or the Roman Catholics. There is a huge amount of symbolism in their liturgies that, if you appreciate it, is very, very profound and actually makes for a very rich experience. On the other extreme, if you want a place where people live and let live, you may wish to check out a Unitarian-Universalist church. You should not be at all dogged out for any beliefs you may hold, but, on the other hand, you have to acknowledge that others have the right to hold their beliefs...even if they are offensive to you. But the issue is that you will want to understand whatever church from their perspective. And then how does that church apply their beliefs in their practices and policies? One thing you might want to do is to go to Barnes and Noble and get a book on comparative religion, so that you can understand, on a basic level, what their beliefs are. One other thing is that if you can live with a group's beliefs but don't like a particular congregation/parish/whatever, go check out another congregation/parish/whatever who are part of the same denomination. All churches are not created equal. As an example, there are three Catholic churches in Laurel, Maryland. Two of them are Latin Rite (i.e., Roman Catholic), one is Byzantine Rite. One of the Latin Rite churches is virtually empty. They don't have any programs going on, no school for their kids, very little activity at all, and attendence is down. The other is packed to overflowing, has a school for the kids, lots of sports activities, a boy scout troop, girl scout troop, teen clubs, young adult groups, and, in fact, they are looking at expanding to 8 masses a weekend, because they are overflowing with the 7 masses (1 Saturday, 5 Sunday in English, 1 Sunday in Spanish) they have scheduled now. I've heard that other denominations have the same situation...some growing, some shrinking. Sorry for this being disorganized, but its just some stray thoughts on the matter.

Just heard Joe Bastardi (AccuWeather) say that he thinks it will hit someplace between Savannah and Cape Hateras. (Got your water and bread yet, Radar??) Don't know what that's worth yet, but that was the take he gave (and justified) just now.

I have a 12 year old and she loves it. She's been an altar server since she was in 4th grade (she's in 7th now). She's developed a very good reputation as one of the best servers in the parish. We are having a dedication of a new altar this Saturday. The celebrant for that is the auxillary bishop of the Washington archdiocese and she was requested, by name, to be one of the servers for that mass. Sort of funny thing (at least to me). We used to attend the 6:30 AM daily mass before school and work. She asked last year if we could stop doing that. I said "sure, no problem" (I don't want to be one of those parents who over-churches their kids). Well, she asked me over the summer if we could start going back to daily mass...I told her I'd be proud to take her...and we've been doing so since school started. She is very involved with the middle school teen group and is involved with 2 or 3 theatrical productions during the year put on by the middle school and high school kids. Through the Church, she's gotten involved with helping with the local food bank, soup kitchen, doing fund raisers (like car washes) for pro-life activities (such as raising money to help poor mothers with day-to-day needs that are part of keeping a family), and so on. She always loves doing it...the only problem is sometimes getting her up on Saturday morning so that she can get to where she needs to get LOL. She's also looking forward to getting into 9th grade so that she can join the high school teen group (they do a lot more fun stuff than the middle school teen group, so she tells me :)--> ) So, yeah, Jan, she has a blast with it. And as far as the younger kids, there are a lot of CYO sports, parties, and so on. Basically, there are socializing opportunities for kids anytime after they get beyond kindergarten age.

Well, I remember TS Alberto years ago that went through Georgia (I was stationed in Warner Robins at the time). Even though it never became a hurricane, it managed to dump enough moisture in the state to cause massive flooding, damage, and a few deaths. (That was, btw, my first time having to deal head on with posse commitatus issues and federal/state military relations. I was in the 5th Combat Comm Group...we had sandbags galore, as well as plenty of tactical vehicles that would have no problem making it through the deep water of the floods, but we had to go through all kinds of a nutroll to be able to help augment the state guard in accomplishing the mission...and this was back in, as memory serves, in either '93 or '94 time frame...) Anyway, y'all be careful. Even though there may not be high winds, they can still cause problems...particularly if they're slow moving...

To answer your question, St. Mary of the Mills, Laurel, MD http://www.stmarys.laurel.md.us BTW, Welcome to gsc...if nobody has said so already, I'm sure Raf will be around with your coffee presently.

p-mosh, Good for you! You're playing the role of a conservative: not depending upon the government, but taking your responsibility as one human being to help another human being in need. My hats off to you!!!! And, btw, I think your idea of a national refugee database to match people separated through a disaster is a marvelous idea and an ideal function for DHS/FEMA. You care if I steal it and build a proposal? I hope to be doing a briefing for FEMA on a related subject in the next couple of weeks and could do so then... (if you want by-name credit, you can send me your real name by private message and I'll be happy to give acknowledgement when I do so)

BTW, the agency responsible is the US Army Corps of Engineers. Not the state. Not the city. Now the state and the city can apply political pressure to accelerate the pumping. The news media (sorry Raf) can apply media pressure and stir up the public to accelerate the pumping. And poliitical action committees can put pressure on. But it is the federal government's responsibility to operate those pumps. (I say this because with the relief effort, I was being very defensive when people attacked the federal government without corresponding attacks on the local and state governments) The other thing: Please help me watch the media. Are they going to start attacking if the pumps don't come online immediately? Or will they bring up the environmental issues? No matter what they do, though, I have one prediction: it'll be Bush's fault. And mstar, I agree...any shrimp I eat for the next several years better be imported shrimp :(-->

Have any of you seen or heard what is mixed in that water in the New Orleans cesspool? - Petroleum - Petro-chemicals - Disease, untreated waste, etc Can you imagine what will happen to the ecology of Lake Ponchetrain when they pump that stuff into there...or the ecology of the delta...or the ecology of that part of the gulf? Shrimp, anybody? Since the city is being evacuated and is a total loss, maybe they should think about how to clean that junk up before just pumping it out. A serious point, I'm not trying to be flippant or sarcastic here.

Brother Speed, That was the standard. Still is, as you know. They could in theory still recall me, but that would be a mistake (old, fat, and out of shape) But it was largely fun. I can truly say that I mostly had fun until Kosovo. And that includes the deployments and the hours. The target lists were wrong. See, I worked at the operational headquarters and had TONS of additional LOAC training than most people have because we had to do the targeting for all the theater's air wings. The target list was designed to take the country (Serbia) down. Not proportional response (I know you are aware of that term's meaning). Even if, at the moment, life stinks living in a tent and being a$$-high in mud, if you believe you're doing the right thing, it was worth it. Hardships weren't so important. But if you believe you're doing the wrong thing, that's when it gets incredibly long. After being involved with Kosovo, it wasn't fun anymore. And I made up my mind to get out as soon as I could after my 20. (And now have a great job and so on) So I don't regret it at all (except that one thing)...

Coolwaters, Here are some groups that are directly involved in providing for the dislocated people who are being relocated to Houston: Storm Aid Harris County Citizen Corps Adventist Community Services United Methodist Committee on Relief Mennonite Disaster Services Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Disaster Relief And there's more... (sorry, didn't see a TWI disaster fund...and yes, I looked)

Gotcha. Thanks. I retired in 2002 right after they lifted the Afghanistan stop-loss. But all of mine was active, so that's the difference. And, yes, I was subject to recall for 2 years as you would be. I personally was disgusted, revolted, and appalled doing the Noble Eagle (Kosovo) stuff. And am still ashamed for having anything to do with it. So I sympathize with you. But, ya gotta follow orders. I hope you aren't having to do anything as horrible as what we had to do to the Serbs while you're over there. (Although for OPSEC you won't be able to say, I recognize) Godspeed.

Brother Speed? Have you been on stop-loss for the past 3 years? Mark E-7, USAF, Ret.

I heard there were shortages in SC also. The prices start to seriously drop at Fredericksburg. Get gas before you get to the Richmond metro (before King's Dominion). They start to rise there again. Last time I was in Hampton Roads area, it wasn't that bad, just as long as you get away from the tourist areas (like Va. Beach -- near the beach, especially). Have fun!

Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus.

I'm on travel through Thursday. You have access to the Internet while down here? Maybe, just maybe I can escape and grab some lunch Friday. Maybe...

when you coming through? if schedules match...

Suggest you check this site out: http://www.gasbuddy.com/index.asp people post gas prices here on a regular prices...all throughout the country. (BTW, prices in MD range from 3.90 as a high that I've seen to 2.90 range that I'vce seen personally) Suggestion for your daughter: - Have her fill up in New Jersey and not stop for gas till she gets to Fredericksburg VA or south. Around the Baltimore/DC area, the prices are HIGHLY inflated (particularly in Alexandria, Arlington County, and Prince William County -- I actually saw $3.00 gas in Alexandria before this latest disaster)

(((rascal)))(((MO))) Ladies, words escape me.

Roy, you very well may have a point that this disaster could be retribution for us. Look at what this Kuwaiti official has to say about it: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705 Now I don't particularly believe that to be the case. But, obviously this Kuwaiti gentleman believes it to be the case.

The solution set to that specific problem? As I've said on other threads:

Irisheyes: the short version of how to reply with quote is to click on the icon in the lower right hand side of the post. The reply will appear with the quoted post at the top. If you want to do it manually, you can use the {quote} and {/quote} tags (replace the curly brackets with square brackets in the real text). Just copy and paste as with any other windows program and use the "quote" tags at the beginning and end of the passage you're quoting. Glad you're ok in Baton Rouge.

If anybody wants to watch some New Orleans TV, WWL is streaming. Use the following link within Windows Media Player: http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/mak...t_khou&live=yes

The best converage I've seen about NO is from the Times-Picayune web site. They have continual updates. http://www.nola.com

A couple of thoughts on water/fire baptism: -- Dialogue of Justin Martyr with Trypho, Chapter XLIX.—"To those who object that Elijah has not yet come, he replies that he is the precursor of the first advent." (c. 150) -- Irenæus, Against Heresies, Book IV, Chap IV, 3. ("Answer to another objection, showing that the destruction of Jerusalem, which was the city of the great King, diminished nothing from the supreme majesty and power of God, for that this destruction was put in execution by the most wise counsel of the same God.") (c. 120-200) Now, the Biblical statement was: Matthew 3:11 I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. (or in KJV: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire: But, read the next verse: 12 His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. (or in KJV: Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.) If you read the above, from a couple of the early Church fathers, you'll note that the two verses were not separated one from another (that's why I mentioned them...because, as I've said elsewhere, reading the early Church fathers shows us how they understood scripture in a time that was a whole lot closer to when the actual events happened than we are) Now, I'd like to point out a couple of other verses to consider in light of verses 11 and 12: Ezekiel 36 25 I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. 27 I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees. 28 You shall live in the land I gave your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your impurities; I will order the grain to be abundant, and I will not send famine against you. 30 I will increase the fruit on your trees and the crops in your fields; thus you shall no longer bear among the nations the reproach of famine. 31 Then you shall remember your evil conduct, and that your deeds were not good; you shall loathe yourselves for your sins and your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I act, says the Lord GOD--let this be known to you! Be ashamed and abashed because of your conduct, O house of Israel. 33 Thus says the Lord GOD: When I purify you from all your crimes, I will repeople the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt; 34 the desolate land shall be tilled, which was formerly a wasteland exposed to the gaze of every passer-by. 35 "This desolate land has been made into a garden of Eden," they shall say. "The cities that were in ruins, laid waste, and destroyed are now repeopled and fortified." 36 Thus the neighboring nations that remain shall know that I, the LORD, have rebuilt what was destroyed and replanted what was desolate. I, the LORD, have promised, and I will do it. (Please note that water was associated with renewal above) Malachi 3 2 But who will endure the day of his coming? And who can stand when he appears? For he is like the refiner's fire, or like the fuller's lye. 3 He will sit refining and purifying (silver), and he will purify the sons of Levi, Refining them like gold or like silver that they may offer due sacrifice to the LORD. (please note that fire is associated with purification) 1 Corinthians 3 13 the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work. 14 If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. 15 But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. (again, fire is associated with purification...however, please consider that the fire is at some relative future time frame)