markomalley

A township just outside of Wilkes-Barre PA. Oh, btw, the url for the article is: http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/13411224.htm

When you read this, pay close attention to the names in the story. Gets all the more bizarre! Teacher arrested over gun The woman’s son took the firearm to Hunlock Creek Elementary, police say. By KRIS WERNOWSKY kwernowsky@leader.net HUNLOCK TWP. – A mother arrested Wednesday after her 11-year-old son took a.22 caliber pistol to Hunlock Creek Elementary School last month is a teacher at the same school, according to the school district’s superintendent. Linnea C. Holdren, 43, of Ridge Road in Shickshinny, appeared before a district judge Wednesday on two felony counts of endangering the welfare of a child and misdemeanor charges of possession of a firearm by a minor, corruption of minors and recklessly endangering another person. She is suspended from her job as a special-education teacher with pay and is at risk of losing her teaching certificate if convicted on the felony charge, according to Northwest Area School District Superintendent Nancy Tkatch. The school district will wait to consider whether to remove Holdren from her position until after the matter goes to court. She remains on the payroll until then. Holdren’s son hasn’t been to school since the incident on Nov. 29, and the district is embroiled in the expulsion process that could result in at least a one-year removal from the school under the state’s zero-tolerance weapons policy, according to Tkatch. Under state law a minor is not allowed to possess a firearm without parental supervision. The Holdren family has the right to a hearing before the school board to address the possible expulsion, the superintendent added. The expulsion hearing will take place during a closed session at the Jan. 18 school board meeting. If the boy is expelled he must attend another school in a different district or a private school. If his family can’t provide the boy an education elsewhere, the school district will pay to provide him schooling through private tutors or an alternative learning center, Tkatch said. Also, on Nov. 23, the boy showed the gun to a 10-year-old classmate in a boys restroom. The classmate later told state police that boy showed him how to load and unload the gun, according to court papers. During the restroom encounter, the boy, who was later arrested, told his classmate that he carried the gun when he disliked someone or when they made him mad, court papers said. According to court papers: A student approached teacher Lori Sorber at 12:40 p.m. on Nov. 29 and said the 11-year-old boy had a gun in his pocket. Sorber approached the boy, who produced a .22 caliber Jennings pistol from his pants pocket. Sorber immediately contacted Andrew Sorber, the principal at the elementary school. He took the gun to his office where it was secured until the state police at Shickshinny arrived. An hour later, Holdren was asked to come to the office. During questioning, Cpl. John Richards of the state police in Shickshinny tried to ask the boy how the gun got in his pocket and he told investigators he didn’t know. His mother cut in saying, “Well you took it out target practicing before we left this morning, right?” He looked at his mother and said, “Yeah, I was out target practicing about two weeks ago and I put it in my pocket and forgot it was there.” Richards asked the boy if he had not changed his pants in two weeks or if his mother hadn’t washed his pants during that time. Holdren interjected again saying, “You took it out and practiced with it this morning. Did you then put it in your pants after you were done and just forgot?” The boy agreed with his mother, saying he simply forgot to take it out of his pocket when he went to school. Holdren said she purchased the gun several years ago when she was being threatened by her daughter’s boyfriend. A records check revealed she was the registered owner. She later told police she gave the gun to her son because she no longer needed it. Cpl. Richards then offered to provide Holdren with a free safety lock for the gun to which she replied, “Well I can’t lock up his guns. They belong to him and he has a right to use them when he wants to use them,” according to court papers. Police also found 50 rounds of ammunition in the student’s book bag. Tkatch said she had no reason to believe that Holdren was an irresponsible teacher, citing her evaluations were always satisfactory, but the superintendent refused to elaborate. Multiple attempts to reach Holdren were unsuccessful. She was released on her own recognizance. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for 1 p.m. Dec. 22 before District Judge John Hasay. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To view the complete arrest affidavit go to www.timesleader.com Note, of course, the teacher is the mother of the child. Note also (and this is the part that is, imho, the most bizarre: note the reaction of mom/special ed teacher when the kid was busted with the gun while at school!)

Mike, Are you happy with what you believe? Does it fill your soul and leave you satisfied? If so, good. Having said that, don't plan on trying to convince me of your beliefs. Because I honestly am not interested. But if it works for you, I'm happy for you. So I hope you aren't offended when I place you on ignore. It's nothing personal, but I just don't want to waste the screen loading time with your posts. Not that I'm mad at you (I'm not), but filtering through your posts to read the ones I am interested in just takes too much time, particularly considering they all essentially say the same thing, something about which I really am not interested. But I wanted to make sure you know it is just a matter of practicality rather than a matter of vitriol. Have a good life! What did they used to say...God Bless, you're the best, or something along those lines???

An actual e-mail I got. Hope you enjoy it: Hi all, It would make us deliriously happy if you would please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all; and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures, and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of the wishees. By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her / himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher. With Sincerest Regards,

So far as what I can gather, the natural father was in prison. "She was born in 1994, when Avrett was 17. Haleigh's father had just been sent to prison and never met his daughter."

BTW, closer reading of this shows that Jason Strickland was not the adoptive father, but the stepfather. Doesn't really change any of the facts otherwise, just wanted to be clear.

This one has all the marks of a good scandal story...daughter adopted away from abusive mother by her sister, sister gets murdered shortly after adoption complete, adoptive father beats daughter, daughter on life support -- if she's pulled off life support and dies, adoptive father gets charged with murder. Adoptive father wants her alive. Natural mother who gave kid up wants her dead (life support removed). State wants kid dead (life support removed). Read the story and there are questions to follow: Accused stepfather fights push to take girl off life support WESTFIELD, Mass. --The photos hanging on Allison Avrett's living room wall conceal the heartache they've come to represent. The snapshots of her daughter Haleigh show a smiling little girl with brown bangs hanging over her squinting eyes. She's a schoolgirl, a dancer, a baby hugging her teddy bear. Most of them were taken before Avrett gave Haleigh up for adoption five years ago, long before the abusive blows that police say landed the 11-year-old girl in a hospital bed attached to the ventilator and feeding tube keeping her alive. Now, with Haleigh's doctors saying she won't recover from her vegetative state, the child is at the center of a right-to-die legal struggle. The state Department of Social Services, which has had custody of Haleigh since she was hospitalized on Sept. 11, wants to remove her from life support. Her stepfather, Jason Strickland, who is charged with beating her and could face a murder charge if she dies, wants to keep her alive. A Juvenile Court judge has already ruled that Haleigh should be allowed to die. Strickland appealed, and the state's highest court is scheduled to hear arguments in the case Tuesday. It will be the first time DSS has argued such a case before the Supreme Judicial Court. Avrett, who gave up her parental rights when she let her sister adopt Haleigh in 2000, says her daughter shouldn't suffer anymore. "They say the most she might ever do is open her eyes," said Avrett, a 29-year-old stay-at-home mom with two other children. "I don't want her to sit there longer than she needs to." Police say the injuries that left Haleigh with severe brain stem injuries came at the hands of Strickland and his wife Holli, Avrett's sister. Within two weeks of the couple pleading innocent to the beating, Holli Strickland was dead, fatally shot in her grandmother's West Springfield apartment. The body of her 71-year-old grandmother, Constance Young, was beside her. The possible murder-suicide is still under investigation. In a legal brief filed ahead of Tuesday's hearing, Strickland, 31, asks to be declared Haleigh's de facto parent. His lawyer, John Egan, insists his client isn't motivated by the chance he could be charged with murder if the girl dies. "We should be coming down on the side of life as opposed to death," he said. He cites the differing opinions of two doctors who disagree on whether the girl's feeding tube should be removed. Both doctors say her ventilator should be shut off. If she remains attached to the feeding tube only, she could live for several months, one of the doctors said. Without the tube, death would come much quicker. "There's a 50-50 split in the medical opinion, and we ought to -- at a minimum -- be moving more cautiously on this," Egan said. Either way, Haleigh's plight marks a tragic end to an 11-year childhood filled with turmoil and upheaval. She was born in 1994, when Avrett was 17. Haleigh's father had just been sent to prison and never met his daughter. In 1998, Haleigh and Avrett moved to Virginia to live with her boyfriend. A few months later, Avrett sent Haleigh back to Massachusetts to spend the summer with Avrett's sister, Holli, and her former husband, Jonathan Poutre. Within a few weeks of her daughter's return to Massachusetts, Avrett says the Department of Social Services took custody of Haleigh and began investigating allegations that she was abused by Avrett's boyfriend in Virginia. A DSS spokeswoman confirms that the agency launched an abuse probe at that time, but refused to give any details because of privacy issues. Avrett said her boyfriend was ultimately cleared. But by then DSS had already placed Haleigh in the permanent foster care of Holli and Jonathan Poutre. By her own admission, Avrett wasn't doing everything she could to regain custody. "I stopped all contact for a while with DSS, my sister and Haleigh," Avrett said. "I couldn't handle the stress, so I took myself out of the situation. I needed a break from it." After attempting suicide and breaking up with her boyfriend in Virginia, Avrett married another man in 1999. A year later -- after what Avrett said was several years of strong persuasion by DSS -- she agreed to let her older sister formally adopt Haleigh. Holli had a degree in child care and was Avrett's role model growing up. The arrangement was OK for Avrett, who was content to have frequent visits with Haleigh and still felt involved in her life. "We were always a close family," Avrett said. But Avrett says things started to change after her sister divorced Jonathan Poutre and married Jason Strickland. "When Jason came into the picture, we started seeing less of Haleigh," she said. And when she did see her daughter, there were sometimes scrapes and bruises along with explanations and excuses: Haleigh had multiple personalities. She was injuring herself, Avrett was told. According to court documents filed by Strickland's lawyer, Haleigh had been hospitalized during the past three years for self-inflicted injuries. The girl's alleged tendency to hurt herself is a cornerstone of Strickland's defense. But a baby sitter said Friday that she saw both Holli and Jason Strickland abuse Haleigh on several occasions before the September beating that resulted in her hospitalization. Testifying at a district court hearing in Jason Strickland's criminal case, Alicia Weiss said she saw Holli Strickland kick her down the stairs repeatedly and hit her with a baseball bat. She said she also saw Jason Strickland hit the girl twice with an open hand and once with a plastic stick. His wife's death leaves Strickland alone to face the charges of beating Haleigh. He hasn't been accused of dealing any particular blows, and court documents alleged that he watched as Holli Strickland kicked Haleigh and hit her with a baseball bat. "It is clear that there was an ongoing pattern of abuse and Jason as a caretaker for the child not only did nothing to stop the abuse, but he participated in it," a police arrest report says. Jason Strickland is out on bail while he awaits trial. Investigators haven't concluded whether it was a murder-suicide or double suicide, but Avrett says her grandmother called her grandfather before shooting herself. "She said `I just killed Holli. I'm going to kill myself next. You better get over here,'" Avrett said. She said both her sister and grandmother left behind notes, but would not talk about what they said. Avrett finds no comfort in the fact that Strickland could be charged with murder if Haleigh dies. "But if he does," she said. "It will be a good thing." For now, her hope is that the Supreme Judicial Court will uphold the decision to let Haleigh die and that the state will allow her to plan her daughter's funeral. "I've had guilt for years over giving her up for adoption," Avrett said. Now, she said, the guilt is over not knowing what was happening in her sister's house. Source: The Boston Globe So here's the questions: Should the mother who gave the kid up for adoption have any role in this whatsoever? Should the state have any role in this whatsoever? Should the father have any role in this whatsoever? (I ask the above because it seems like there should be a none-of-the-above selection here) Should the kid's ventilator be removed? Should the kid's feeding tube be removed? And before you say "he11 yes she should be cut off," try to remember your position in regards to Michael Schiavo's rights in the Terri Schiavo case a few months ago. Try to be consistent. Oh, btw, my answer: I don't know...

From the New York Post (FWIW): Slay bells are ringing outside a $3 million brownstone on East 18th Street in Manhattan, where, rather than your typical jolly St. Nick, a skinny, bloody-bearded Santa holds a knife in his left hand and the severed head of a doll - blood gushing from its eye sockets - in the other. This 'tis-the-season-to be-creepy display - which has drawn no small amount of community ire - can be found in the front yard of Joel Krupnik, 58, and his wife, Mildred Castellanos, 43, who said they are protesting the commercialization of the Yule season. In another touch of Christmas jeer, the Santa dummy is standing behind a tree whose bare branches are adorned with beheaded Barbie dolls. "Christmas has religious origins. It's in the Bible. Santa is not in the Bible. He's not a religious symbol. Santa Claus has become a piece of Americana," Krupnik explained yesterday. Krupnik, who dabbles in real estate, said if anyone was offended, they could simply cross the street. Some children have done just that. Other people have called the cops - only to be told there was nothing they could do. And one woman chased Castellanos down the block, screaming epithets at her. Outside the home - also decorated with gargoyles, lizards and dragons - there were many who accused the couple of dreaming of a fright Christmas. "This is like a nightmare before Christmas. These people are possessed," fumed Laure Levinson, 50. "I thought it was very gory and bloody. Christmas is not supposed to be gory," said Jimmy Crevier, 9, who was passing by. "It's bad," agreed Sean Conlon, 5. "Santa's face and hair are red - Santa shouldn't look like that." His brother, Ryan, 9, chimed in, "Santa makes toys and he lives in the North Pole. He doesn't have a haunted house like that." "It's weird," said Javin Bose, 7, who lives next door. The Krupniks, who have three children and have owned their home for 16 years, are nonpracticing Jews who don't celebrate any holidays, but like putting up decorations for them. "We definitely have holiday spirit," insisted daughter Darla, 16. The couple introduced their kids to horror films at an early age - and Darla and her brothers, Ariel, 18, and Charleston, 20, love them. In fact, Darla came up with the idea for the bloody Santa - basing it on the movie, "Silent Night, Deadly Night," in which a teenager goes on a murderous rampage dressed as Santa. The beheaded dolls came from Castellanos, who has a collection. Source: NY Post I guess they must have gotten coal in their stockings, huh?

Danny, The Catholic Encyclopedia is a good source, remarkably detailed. However, there is a more riveting story that is glossed over by that entry. Carroll's discussion of it goes into much more detail (if I have time this evening, I'll try to type out a portion of it). The synopsis is that he vacillated between sympathies for both the Arian and Trinitarian POVs. He considered them all Christian and, in fact, attempted to get Arius reconcilled to the Church (in fact, Arius apparently died very shortly before this was to have happened). But the principle threat by that time was, in fact, Arianism. You might consider purchasing Carroll's series of books on Church History. They are fairly reasonably priced (less than $25 per book) and are pretty good reads (although, of course, written from a particular POV). They are also pretty well sourced.

As I said to Cynic, I am well familiar with the Montanist conversion of Tertullian. But I do distinctly remember reading this one place. It stuck with me precisely because it was so odd, particularly considering his well known, often cited work against Marcion. And my (Catholic) sources state the same thing, that this was the peak of the Marcionite era...which was essentially over by the time of the Nicene Councils. And, for the viewing audience, I should state that Origin was only alive through 232 AD. See, that account just doesn't jive with what I've seen and read. I have seen that Theodosius was the one who started the repressions of the (non-Christian -- read non-Catholic) sects. Constantine was confused as to whether to subscribe to Trinitarian or Arian Christianity almost to the end of his life. As a point of trivia, by the way, Constantine wasn't baptized until a couple of months before his death in 337 (Keating, 9-20). He did a tremenous amount for Christianity, but the repressions didn't occur until after his death. Look for Theodosius for that: Please note the following: Cath. Encycl. article on Theodosius I; Roman Emporer: Theodosius; Wikipedia: Theodosius I; etc. Whitehead (255) reports the edict given by Theodosius on Feb 27, 380: It is our will that all the peoples subject to the government of our clemency shall follow that religion which the holy Peter delivered to the Romans, as pious tradition from to the present times declares it, and as the pontiff Damsus manifestly observes it, as also does Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity; that is, that is in accordance with the apostolic teaching and gospel we should believe in the deity of the Father and the Son and teh Holy Spirit, of equal majesty, in sacred Trinity. Those who follow this law we order shall be included under the name of Catholic Christians. All others we pronounce mad and insane and require that they bear the ignominy of teachers of heresy; their conventicles shall not receive the title of churches; they shall be chastised first by divine vengence, and then by the punishment of our indignation, with divine approval. Whitehead states (although his view is understandably parochial) that these measures were taken as the result of an ascendency of Arians, particularly in the East. As an example, the eastern emporer Valens was an Arian. Carroll (55-59) agrees with this and also notes that a number of the bishops in the east were Arian. In fact, he noted that the famous St. Basil, after he was named bishop of Capadoccia, had a demand placed on him by Valens, through his prefect Modestus, to take the Arian creed of Rimini. Basil refused and Valens died before he could exert adequate pressure on Basil to either break him or make him a martyr. But the point is that Marcionism was not seen as the threat, as it was up through the mid 200s, in the Nicene era. Arianism was. Sources: Whitehead, Kenneth, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, 2000, Ignatius Press. Carroll, William, The Building of Christendom (A History of Christendom Vol 2), 1987, Christendom College Press. Hope that helps! History is FUN!!!

I will have to look for it, but despite his anti-Marcionite writings, I seem to recall reading in one spot that he had toyed with Marcion's philosophy for a short time. It's been a while, but I still recall it (I think because of the surprise). If I can find the source, I'll post it...may not be an online source. And no, I am not confusing this with his well known conversion to Montanism. But it's not an important point in the argument, anyway...

Belle, As I said before, it was a process, rather than a single event. According to Schaff (nowhere could he be considered a Catholic author LOL), The collection of these writings into a canon, in distinction both from apocryphal or pseudo-apostolic works, and from orthodox yet merely human productions, was the work of the early church; and in performing it she was likewise guided by the Spirit of God and by a sound sense of truth. It was not finished to the satisfaction of all till the end of the fourth century, down to which time seven New Testament books (the "Antilegomena" of Eusebius), the second Epistle of Peter, the second and third Epistles of John, the anonymous Epistle to the Hebrews, the Epistles of James and Jude, and in a certain sense also the Apocalypse of John, were by some considered of doubtful authorship or value. But the collection was no doubt begun, on the model of the Old Testament canon, in the first century; and the principal books, the Gospels, the Acts, the thirteen Epistles of Paul, the first Epistle of Peter, and the first of John, in a body, were in general use after the middle of the second century, and were read, either entire or by sections, in public worship, after the manner of the Jewish synagogue, for the edification of the people. http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/1_ch12.htm I've already provided you, in my earlier post, an example from Iraneus, demonstrating that the four Gospels in current use were the ones considered authoritative as early as the close of the second century. Had a person approached a church with a Gospel of Peter or a Gospel of Mary or a Gospel of Thomas by that time, such a work would have been considered, but it would have hardly been considered with the same authority as one of the tetramorph Gospels listed by Irenaeus. The canoncial letters of Paul were likewise mentioned in this same Adversus Haereses; I do not provide a quote, because the references are literally scattered throughout Irenaeus' document. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm - Article on the Canon of the New Testament http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm - Article on the Canon of the Old Testament http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm - Article on the Apocrypha (primarily NT apocrypha) All of the above articles have a tremendous amount of detail to them and are written from an academic point of view. (I think if you check with Danny, he'll concur on that) As to Constantine, if you really look into history, you'll find out that he was not truly in a position to force anything on Christianity...Christianity was not yet the state religion. It wouldn't be until the reign of Theodosius I. What Constantine did was enact a law called the Edict of Milan. That document simply made Christianity legal, vice making it the state religion (Actually, he outlawed blood sacrifices and other Pagan practices, thus essentially making it so) in 391 AD. Having said that, both Constantine and Theodosius did convene ecumenical councils during their reign. However, the First Nicene Council was ineffective in ridding the Empire of Arians...it took Theodosius to effectively accomplish that. In fact, if you were to look, you'd find that Constantine actually switched over to the Arian point of view for a few years after the conclusion of Nicea. If I'm not mistaken, he switched back prior to his death. (He was sort of confused, as well...my understanding is that Constantine called the bishops together and said: "settle this controversy one way or the other") But, again, unless you can show me where I'm wrong, I still will stick to the thesis I forwarded earlier: that the Gnostic writings were suppressed more for the purpose of maintaining theological orthodoxy rather than for the purpose of advancing political power. Christianity was being suppressed with varying degrees of severity all through the time frame of the Marcionite and other gnostic controversies, thus there was little or no political power to garner from this suppression. By the time Christianity gained any kind of political power, the controversy had moved from gnosticism to Arianism. There simply weren't a large quantity of Arian works to suppress. The major work by an Arian was Eusibius' History, and nobody could say that this was a suppressed or hidden work...it's one of the most common works out there. Even earlier, you'll see that Tertullian toyed with Marcionite ideas for a while. Those works, likewise, weren't suppressed. And there are other authors as well. The evidence just doesn't support the claim. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that Gnostics have always essentially been out of the mainstream, at least since the beginning of the third century. As Danny can relate to you, the gnostic varieties of Christianity (of which Marcion was a major leader, the one to whom Danny subscribes) and Catholicism had the bulk of their "battles" prior to the era of the Council of Nicea. Having said that, though, Gnosticism never really has died out, although Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox Christianity have all tried to suppress it, even to the point of having barbequed Gnostic parties, throughout the ages. I think the reason why gnostic thought is gaining in popularity in the current era is because if its' "hidden knowledge" aspects. I see it acting as a link between a lot of the pagan and pantheistic religions that have gained their vast popularity in recent decades, as people who, for one reason or another, have foresworn traditional Christiantiy, but yet need to find spiritual answers to spiritual questions. That is with due respect to anybody who has made that decision, it's just an IMHO statement. Hope that helps out some. Good luck with your search!

Garth, If you actually were to read the Snopes account, it is sort of equivicable (for Snopes). I would hardly call it "blow out of the water." It stated, There is no substantive evidence to demonstrate that the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" was created or used as a secret means of preserving tenets of the Catholic faith, or that this claim is anything but a fanciful modern day speculation, similar to the many apocryphal "hidden meanings" of various nursery rhymes. As its alternate theory, Snopes states: It is possible that "The Twelve Days of Christmas" has been confused with (or is a transformation of) a song called "A New Dial" But the lyrics of "a new dial" are hardly encrypted theological concepts...in fact, in my mind, "a new dial" actually provides a somewhat compelling linkage to the English "12 days," the lyrics are a little too similar for my taste. And, as I am familiar with the Elizabethan Penal Laws that were in force... So, considering Snopes never conclusively proved the story false (by showing, in a definitive fashion, the actual origin of the song), giving the story a "false" rating is overstepping a bit. Giving it a "unconfirmed" rating with doubtful comments would be a little more appropriate, in my book. (Pretty bad considering before Wordwolf posted the Snopes link, I had always just considered the song to be a fanciful depiction of the old custom of giving presents between the Feast of the Nativity and the Feast of the Epiphany and never assigned any catechetical meaning to it)

Of course, we have the results of the gifts in the Twelve Days of Christmas. I wonder if Snopes has a section on this, as well: Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 26 Dearest Bill: I went to the door today and the postman delivered a partridge in a pear tree. What a wonderful thoughtful gift! I couldn't have been more surprised. With deepest Love and Devotion, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 27 Dearest Bill: Today the postman brought your most wonderful gift. Just imagine - two turtle doves! I'm delighted at your very sweet gift. They are just adorable. I will have to get a cage for them. With deepest Love, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 28 Dearest Bill: Oh! Your third gift arrived! You really went too far, I think. I don't deserve such generosity - three French hens. They are just lovely, but I must protest - you've been way too kind. Love, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 29 Dearest Bill: Today the postman delivered four calling birds. Now, really, they're quite nice, but now I have 10 birds and nowhere to put any more....so please, no more birds!! But, thanks. Affectionately, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 30 Dearest Bill: What a surprise! Another present....and not a bird this time! Wow! Today the postman delivered five golden rings, one for each finger. You're just too extravagant, but I love it! Frankly, all those birds squawking were beginning to get on my nerves, but the rings are wonderful...and so quiet!! All my love, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA December 31 Dear Bill: When I opened the door there were actually six geese a-laying on my front steps. So you're back to the birds again, huh? Those geese are huge! And it was bird poop that they were laying..complete with a large count of coloform bacteria. Where will I ever keep them? The neighbors are complaining. The police came by with a formal complaint, and I can't sleep through all the racket. I guess I have my own noise-makers for the new years eve celebration tonight. Please stop. NO MORE BIRDS!! Cordially, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA January 1 Bill: Happy New Year...to some people. It hasn't been so happy with me. What's with you and those dumb birds? Seven swans a-swimming. What kind of practical joke is this? There's bird guana all over the house and they never stop squawking. I could not sleep all night and I'm a nervous wreck. You have gone too far, bird brain. STOP SENDING BIRDS. NO MORE BIRDS!! GOT IT? Sincerely, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA January 2 OK, WISE GUY: I think I prefer the birds over this. What am I going to do with eight maids a-milking? It's not enough with all those birds and eight maids a-milking, but they had to bring their cows. Have you ever smelled a yard full of cow patties? Their piles are all over the lawn, and I can't move in my own house. Leave me alone. NO MORE OF YOUR "GIFTS". Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA January 3 Hey, Vacuum-for-a-brain: What are you? Some kind of freak? Now there's nine ladies dancing...right in the smelly you-know-what and tracking it all over my house. The way they've been bickering with the milk maids, I hesitate to even call them ladies. You'll get yours, buddy. Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA January 4 You rotten piece of cow patty: What's with the ten lords a-leaping? I have threatened to break their legs so that they can never leap again. All 23 of the birds are dead. They've been trampled to death by the leapers, the dancers, and the cows. At least, I don't have to worry about them any more. However, the cows are mooing all night having gotten diarrhea. My living room is a sewer! The City Commissioner has subpoenaed me to give cause why my house shouldn't be condemned. I'm filing a complaint to the police about you! One who means it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Miss Sara Truelove Somewhere, USA January 5 Listen, brainless: Now there's eleven pipers piping. And they never stop piping...except when they're chasing those maids or dancing girls. The cows are getting very upset and are sounding worse than the birds ever did. What am I going to do? There is a petition going around to evict me from the neigborhood. I hope you're satisfied, you rotten, vicious swine. Your sworn enemy, Sara -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Law Offices Sue, Pillage, and Plunder 1313 Grunge St Somewhere, USA January 6 Dear Sir: This is to acknowledge your latest gift of twelve drummers drumming which you have seen fit to inflict on our client, Miss Sara Truelove. The damage, of course, was total. She was found beating her head against the wall to the beat of the twelve drums. If you should attempt to reach Miss Truelove at Happy Glen Sanitarium, the attendants have instructions to shoot you on sight. With this letter please find attached a warrant for your arrest. Cordially, Law Firm of Sue, Pillage, and Plunder

I knew R!co on his interim corps year when he was sent to Carbondale, IL. My initial impression of him was the same as yours; however, as I saw him through that year, what I initially thought was exuberence and joyousness turned out to actually be fanaticism...and that is not intended as a compliement. He was as close to TWI-III as I would have ever wanted to see.

Thanks, but so you know, Belle wrote that (I had it in a quote).

Danny, If you're interested: RULES  FOR SCHOLARS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The Archives are open to qualified Researchers from institutions of Higher Education pursuing academic studies and who have an adequate knowledge of archival research. 2. Applications requesting access to the Archives must be submitted to the Prefect along with a letter of introduction from either a recognized institution of Higher Education or from a suitably qualified person in the field of historical research. 3. Applications should specify the applicant’s surname, first name(s), qualifications (these must include a four-year University degree or equivalent), profession, nationality, home address, address in Rome and purpose of research. 4. Applications should be accompanied by two photographs, one of which will be used for the Entry Card required to enter the Vatican City and the Archive Study Rooms. 5.Entry Cards expire on July 15th of each year. Your card will be renewed upon submission of the previous year’s card. 6. Undergraduate students are not admitted into the Archives. 7.In order to allow access to as many Researchers as possible, access is usually not permitted to more than one researcher working on the same topic. 8. The Archives are open to Researchers from September 16th to July 15th (8:30 a.m. to 1:15 p.m.) from Monday to Saturday. The Admissions Secretary issues Entry Cards from Monday to Friday from 8:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. Periods and days in which the Archives are closed are shown on the «Archive Calendar». The Bursar’s Office is open to researchers every day from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. 9. Researchers holding an Entry Card may enter the Archives between 8:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. (Monday to Saturday). A written explanation must be submitted to the Prefect to request afternoon access (from 4:00 p.m. to 6:45 p.m.). 10. Collections up to and including the pontificate of Benedict XV (†January 22nd, 1922) are available for consultation, as well as the collections of Arch. Nunz. Monaco; Arch. Nunz. Berlino; Aff. Eccl. Str., Baviera; Affari Eccl. Str., Germania (until 1939) and thecollectionUfficio Informazioni Vaticano (Prigionieri di guerra 1939-1947). 11. The available forms should be used to request archival material. No more than three volumes or envelopes may be requested per day. Requests are accepted until 12:00 noon. 12. All volumes and documents must be handled with the utmost care. It is strictly forbidden to write, even in pencil, on archival documents or to place paper or any other objects on the material. Furthermore, the order of the material must not be altered. 13. Only graphite-pencils may be used for writing notes. Ballpoint-pens, fountain-pens, felt-tip pens, etc., are strictly forbidden. 14. If the material issued to the Researcher is in a poor state of conservation or presents other problems, the staff must be informed. 15. It is strictly forbidden to remove any material from the Study Room. 16. Indexes must be consulted in the Index Room and replaced in their original location. Publication of the indexes, in part or as a whole, is forbidden. 17. Silence must be observed in all parts of the Archives. Please dress with discretion. 18. Researchers unfamiliar with the Archive collections and indexes should refer to the guide provided by the Prefecture. Publications are available to help researchers orient themselves. 19. Researchers may not photograph the documents. Reproductions must be requested from the Archives Photographic Department. 20. Admission to the Archives carries with it the obligation to send the Prefecture one copy of any publication (articles in journals, exhibition catalogues, books etc.) in which documents from the Archives are used or quoted. 21. Reference number of all volumes and documents should be quoted in the correct and concise form given in the Collection Index. If in doubt a staff member should be consulted. The words «Archivio Segreto Vaticano» (ASV) must always precede the reference number and no reference should be made to the city of Rome in the same. 22. Failure to observe these rules will result in the refusal of future access to the Archives. http://www.vatican.va/library_archives/vat..._doc_amm_en.htm I don't know why anybody would want to be in Rome during August anyway (miserably hot).

Transcripts are a good thing. May not please everybody. May not be based on facts...except the fact that the information presented WAS presented! Thanks for this!!!

Belle, with due respect, before you start formulating conclusions, I suggest you get a little better informed about the facts of how the canon of scripture was formulated. Your statement that the canon was formulated by politicians is simply unsupportable (or if it is, I challenge you to support it). The Canon was formed in a period of honing down that took several hundred years. Although the Council of Hippo (393) formalized the Canon of the NT, it was more an affirmation of what was accepted. To be sure, heterodox books, including many gnostic texts, were put off and suppressed; however, this was not an "at one time" event...it was more of a process. As an example, the tetramorph Gospel was clearly identified as early as the second century. This was documented (not decreed) by the Father of the Church Iraneus, in his document Adversus Haereses (III, 1) 1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles. For, after our Lord rose from the dead, [the apostles] were invested with power from on high when the Holy Spirit came down [upon them], were filled from all [His gifts], and had perfect knowledge: they departed to the ends of the earth, preaching the glad tidings of the good things [sent] from God to us, and proclaiming the peace of heaven to men, who indeed do all equally and individually possess the Gospel of God. Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. Keep in mind that this was written over 200 years prior to the Council of Hippo. You will find that the epistles were largely identified in a similar fashion, over time. Hippo simply codified what was already known. Also, keep in mind that Christianity was not declared the state religion of Rome until 388, under Emporer Theodosius I. Therefore, political power is highly unlikely to be Iraneus' motive in writing Adversus Haereses. Theological Orthodoxy (against, primarily Marcionites) is a likely motive, though. No offense, I am not hardly trying to get you to stop looking at or considering gnostic or other apocryphal/pseudographical texts, but before dismissing the Canon as a political maneuver to cut the legs maintain power. I would agree that the exclusion of non-canocial texts was a succession of parochial manuevers to maintain orthodoxy; however, that is significantly different than a political manuever. Now, if you can provide some sources to back up the political intrigue (as opposed to parochial orthodoxy, as I freely will concede), I am more than willing to listen.

I saw his handle on the bottom of the main screen this afternoon. His profile says he was last active at 2:07 PM today. So, at least this afternoon, he was lurking here. If you read this Ham, hope all is well with you.

TGN, It makes complete sense to me (and I'll agree that some of the best people I've ever associated with were in TWI -- along with some of the worst). Think about it: you have young adults, with a whole lot of talent and a whole lot to offer...dealing with a horribly cynical time like the '70s...and then on comes old Vic who provided them with a 'positive' vision ... seems to me a natural combination, the idealism along with a beatific vision such as he portrayed. It doesn't surprise me a bit. One comment I made shortly after getting involved with TWI that I still remember was "If the mainstream churches were doing their jobs, there would never have been a need for TWI." I got some really nasty stares when I made that comment ... I didn't understand it at the time ... but years later, I still think that it was absolutely correct.

Understand... Two things in my previous post that I'd like to highlight in that context: (again, I recognize that it works for some...and again, for those, good for you). (if this offends the reader's personal theology, my apologies. It is, after all, just IMHO) And then I believe that we'd agree on this: Christianity's God is merciful. Christianity's God dispenses grace and forgiveness. Service to Christianty's God is done out of thankfulness and love...a response to grace already dispensed by God.

The writings of St. Therese of Liseux taught me the simple beauty of God's love The writings of St. Ignatius Loyola taught me self-discipline The writings of Thomas à Kempis taught me humility The writings of St. Augustine of Hippo taught me that God could actually forgive, no matter what But none of the above can be fully understood outside of the framework of the Church. But I fully recognize that the above means nothing. Maybe some day that "individual" god will eventually be able to provide, through some mechanism, some peace in an "individual" method that will allow you to accept it. At least that's been my prayer for you...

Evan probably had the best advice that I can think of. He said the following in a different thread: Like many of us (but not all, apparently), you apparently were burnt by TWI. For those who weren't, I say good for you...more power to you... But if you were burnt by TWI, approaching God using the paradigm put forward by TWI, using their doctrines and their behaviors and their practices, will probably only result in further bondage for you (again, I recognize that it works for some...and again, for those, good for you). That's where Evan's advice comes in. You said: I would submit that a commitment wasn't made to God...a commitment was made to a perverted image of God taught by TWI. And when those commitments were made in order to grow and develop into an image that is worthy of that perverted TWI image of God, you might never measure up. (if this offends the reader's personal theology, my apologies. It is, after all, just IMHO) TWI's god was judgemental. TWI's god was vindictive. Christianity's God is merciful. Christianity's God dispenses grace and forgiveness. There are many, many stories of where people served the god of TWI in order to be "good enough" or to "spiritually grow." Service to Christianty's God is done out of thankfulness and love...a response to grace already dispensed by God rather than a bargain in order to earn that grace. It never ceases to give me sorrow when I read stories of people burnt by TWI. But I hope and pray that you can come to recognize that what you were taught to serve was not a reflection of actual Christianity.

I hope this pic comes through for you. If not, you can see it in context on this web page.