markomalley

but maybe we could discuss the price without taking away from the good What if the core is rotten and only a small part of the periphery was beneficial? Should those of us who hold that belief shut up? (Meanwhile, of course, it is perfectly acceptable to hash around slams about traditional Christianity, and Catholicism in particular..."of course the trinity is BS" -- "The Pope is the worst religious leader in the world" -- "everybody knows that water baptism is wrong, of course" etc., etc., etc.) Is that the board you want? And is that the mods' and admins' position, as well?

Sorry 'bout that: Queen of Heaven rejoice, alleluia: For He whom you merited to bear, alleluia, Has risen as He said, alleluia. Pray for us to God, alleluia. It's a traditional Easter season antiphon.

Speaking for myself, I couldn't care less what somebody believes. I do, however, believe that the fusion of doctrines that Wierwille taught took a lot of partially correct things, mixed them with out-and-out heresies, and created a doctrinal lie that was the basis and the enabler for the abuses that impacted so many people here. I firmly believe that the maxium deliverance from TWI prison will come when the root cause is fully exposed for the lie that it is. Having said that, I try to restrict my comments to those that are properly in context (i.e., I don't try to derail a thread in order to make my assertions) Outside of the Doctrinal forum, when I attempt to inject that kind of thought (along with the appropriate backup and support), that is largely the rationale for it. Other than this, I will attempt to correct misunderstandings and misstatements of the representation of historic, apostolic Christianity when the topic comes up in a thread. Otherwise, I try to be live and let live on folks' belief systems. (Now, the Doctrinal forum is the exception to this...but doctrinal discussions/arguments/spitball fights are supposed to happen in that sandbox, aren't they?) Oh, and by the way, I don't apologize for my comments, either.

You might want to read this article on the Diaspora. It might give you some insight. You might also want to check out this article on the Diaspora. It corroborates and expands on what was contained in the first. And one more: here. Finally, the authoritative source: The Jewish Encyclopedia Hope that helps...

So is this the GS version of Godwin's law? "you know a thread is dead when pineapple on pizza is mentioned"

Does this qualify as bomb throwing?

And pizza has pineapple on it!

I thought it sounded pretty familiar. Check here.

http://www.irfanview.com/index.htm I have used Irfanview to organize and convert image files for years. Freeware. Supports viewing multiple file formats, as well as doing basic conversions (shrinking files so they can be uploaded here is an example).

A man dies and goes to hell. There he discovers that he has a choice: he can go to capitalist hell or to communist hell. Naturally, he wants to compare the two, so he goes over to capitalist hell. There outside the door is the devil, who looks a bit like Ronald Reagan. "What's it like in there?" asks the visitor. "Well," the devil replies, "in capitalist hell, they flay you alive, then they boil you in oil and then they cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives." "That's terrible!" he gasps. "I'm going to check out communist hell!" He goes over to communist hell, where he discovers a huge queue of people waiting to get in. He waits in line. Eventually he gets to the front and there at the door to communist hell is a little old man who looks a bit like Karl Marx. "I'm still in the free world, Karl," he says, "and before I come in, I want to know what it's like in there." "In communist hell," says Marx impatiently, "they flay you alive, then they boil you in oil, and then they cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives." "But… but that's the same as capitalist hell!" protests the visitor, "Why such a long queue?" "Well," sighs Marx, "Sometimes we're out of oil, sometimes we don't have knives, sometimes no hot water…"

I don't know if they have the concept down: Top 10 Reasons to check out the United Church of Christ 10. What if church is like spinach...? That sounds like a good reason to check out a church....

I remember Refiner very well... Seemed like he did a lot of this: "Viking Kitties" was from another site...

I don't envy anybody living in your neck of the woods. Sorry about that. For me, I'm counting about 8 years until I can bid this neck of this woods goodbye. Although there are tremendous job opportunities around here, sometimes I wonder whether or not it's worth it.

Mrs. Sudo/JJ: Thanks

David... Viking Kitties...here???

The premillenial/postmillenial/amillenial issue is not so much the question as the issue of eternal security. I am not willing to stipulate that premise. There have been a number of threads on that subject here, but I'd be happy to discuss it once again if needed... If we don't stipulate that as a premise, the discussion would take a whole different tack, as I'm sure you'd appreciate. The reason why I didn't just dismiss that premise and answer according to the theology to which I subscribe is that this would take the thread in a completely different direction than which you might want to go. I'm more than willing to go down that road; I just don't know if you wish to do so.

Welcome to the Cafe! I posted some notes about selecting a religious group down in the doctrinal basement. Those notes have gotten some good feedback from folks, so I'd encourage you to read them. You can find them by clicking on this hyperlink here. There are multiple different ways of dealing with a disagreement in a fundamental dogma. It sounds like this group handled their disagreement in a untactful and unchristian manner. Not that they should accept your (from their perspective) heterodox beliefs, but they could have done so in a far more constructive manner. For example, demonstrating the correctness of their beliefs through the use of scriptures. But not all folks identifying themselves as Christians exemplify their beliefs through their actions. As a trinitarian, please accept my assurances that not all of us are pharisees.

Since I don't buy the TWI theology, you'll excuse me for not buying the premise of your question. Now if you'd like to reconsider the premise, then I'd be pleased to give you an answer.

I've seen PFAL review, but not the research on ordination. Could be interesting. Link?

Are you mad??? God wouldn't allow the Nazis to kill so many people but He would allow the commies to kill 3-4 times as many in Russia and many multiples of that many in China?? :blink: :blink: WTF, over?

Shell, FWIW I've had my daughter enrolled in a parochial school since about 1/2 way through Kindergarten (when we returned to the states from Italy). We're picking out a high school now. Largely, it's been a good experience. We went through a pretty serious weeding process when selecting the appropriate school for her. Some factors that you may discover are: - There are some schools that evaluate the adequacy of the family in grading the kid. To include out-of-school practices. For example, one school in the area (Grace Brethren) made it clear that listening to secular rock-n-roll, along with unapproved "Christian" rock-n-roll was inappropriate behavior. They also wanted to ensure that the parents did not frequent "disreputable" places (they might cause a bad influence on the kids). - You should keep in mind that ALL schools with a religious affiliation will attempt to influence the kids to believe their brand of Christianity. Whether that version is baptist, lutheran, catholic, eastern orthodox, or some other brand. At least in the vast majority of the schools that I've reviewed (both Catholic and otherwise), non-participation in religion classes is not an option. In some schools, the pressure can be rather significant (and, no, Catholic schools are hardly the worst in this regard). - In some schools, the curriculum is essentially the same as the public schools...but with the addition of "religion" class. In some schools, the overall curriculum will be infiltrated with the religion. (e.g., the kids might have to read the "Left Behind" series for their language class) Bottom line: Read the "student/parent" handbook VERY carefully -- with a SUSPICIOUS mind. How much behavior of the student in school/ out of school and also the family are you subjecting yourself to? Talk to as many parents as possible -- try to observe not only satisfaction but homogenity (if they are apparently completely homogenous -- be very careful). FWIW

FWIW, the New Testament, like the Old Testament, was not a "book." They were both collections of writings that were assembled after being codified into a "canon" of scripture. Keeping that in mind, it is pretty apparent that some books would logically be written in different languages. For example, the Gospel According to St. Matthew was likely originally written in Aramaic, as it's audience was likely the Jews.. While it's likely that the Gospel According to St. Luke was likely written in Greek (Luke was from the town of Troas...a Greek city). Note it was written to "Theophilus" -- beloved of God -- in Greek. And so on...

Retired military healthcare (from the retiree's perspective) works as follows: There are two plans: 1) A POS-type plan with in network discounts (Tricare-Standard) - Annual deductible (I believe $300, but forget exactly) - 75%/25% co-insurance - 80%/20% if you use a provider in-network - $3/$9 meds co-pay (generic/brand) 2) An HMO-type plan (Tricare Prime) - Annual fee (IIRC: $460 per family) - Must use military facilities where available - Approvals required for specialist care - $3/ $9 meds co-pay I use the first plan. My employer buys a supplement for me that picks up the deductible and co-insurance amounts. (The supplemental policy would cost me around $100 a month otherwise) It's really an outstanding plan and is one of the PRIMARY reasons why I stayed in until I got past my 20 year point so I could retire. Had it not been for that, I'd have probably separated at about 16 years. Before Galen has a chance to say it: thank you for your tax dollars. I understand this plan is VERY costly to the taxpayers. (I understand that about $29 billion is budgeted for health care...the vast majority to deal with retirees...considering there are only a few million of us out there, that adds up)

Allan, Let me give you a little hint... The biggest problem with what you're saying is this: GSCafe is not an "ex-Mormon" site. GSCafe is not an "ex-Catholic" site. GSCafe is not an "ex-Hindu" site. It's not "ex-JW, ex Wicca, ex-Southern Baptist, ex-Hari Krishna." GSCafe is an ex-TWI site. The reason why you're p1ssing so many folks off is not necessarily that folks want to defend LDS theology. With the exception of Mo, I don't think anybody would. The problem is that, from all appearances, Mo seems to be a nice lady. And the comments are out-of-scope for this site...particularly when they are brought in on threads where they are completely out of context. I mean, if you want to start a thread where folks can dog out LDS theology as un-Christian and dog out LDS leadership for being cult leaders, I don't know if folks would respond or not, but at least it would be in the correct context. The thread would be about "what's wrong with LDS." There's a little difference between your bashing Mo's beliefs and the anti-Catholic stuff that happens: most of the anti-Catholic stuff is from folks who were Catholics as children and who had bad experiences. Is your constant bashing of her beliefs because you are an ex-LDS? Because if that were the case, it would be a h3ll of a lot more understandable than just coming out of the blue. Just a helpful hint...

You know, I stopped tithing a long time ago. It didn't seem to make a difference one way or the other. Also, I hope you know that TWI is hardly the only group that teaches tithing. Anyway, for the past many years, I've had the following philosophy about giving: I give what I can afford to give without causing a negative impact on my family. I try to be a little conservative with my spending (e.g., I could afford a better computer, but my computer is a 5 year old Pentium 3 laptop...it still works for what I need of it, so why waste money on a new 'puter? -- I'll get a new one when I can't run my apps on it). That conservatism makes it so that there is still money available at the end of the pay period. It has seemed to work for me.